On narrative

[lobelia321]

From a book on Narrative by H. Porter Abbott:

... the term diegesis (which Plato originally used to refer to stories that were told, not acted) has been used to refer to the world of the story -- that "reality" in which the events are presumed to take place. Thus, if a character narrates who also plays a role in the diegesis, it is called homodiegetic narration. If a voice situated outside the action narrates, it is called heterodiegetic narration. Gérard Genette argued ... that the distinction between homodiegetic and heterodiegetic narrators is more adequate than that between first- and third-person narrators for specifying whether a narrator is inside or outside of the world of the story.

Interesting. Gets me out of the first-person or third-person pov conundrum. Am trying to think of slashy examples.

I guess Cordelia's FOTA is an example of first-person homodiegetic narration. Brenda's Fun & Games is an example of third-person homodiegetic narration.

Heterodiegesis seems to be rarer in slash. I guess we all love getting emotionally involved too much. Abbot Porter cites Hemingway but I'm still trying to think of a Hemingway-esque slash fic. I suppose I was trying to be heterodiegetic in "When We Are Human" but then the second-person narrator (moth, spider) most definitely is part of the story so would be homodiegetic. I suppose some of Demelza's and Gabby Hope's recent little Dom tales are heterodiegetic because they subsist almost entirely on dialogue.

It is more complex than I thought at first. This is why it is interesting.

Comments

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

The narrator can play a role in the diegesis without understanding that role at all -- extreme example, eyebrowofdoom's 'Flint' (I think) with truly clueless 1st-person narrator
Yes, but that narrator is still nevertheless a heterodiegetic narrator because Billy is part of the story, very much so. His very cluelessness is totally woven into the fabric of the story. So omniscience vs. er, nihiliscience (??) is a different issue.

I think a prime example of a heterodiegetic narrator would be someone like David Attenborough telling the story of the sperm whale's migration. Because he ain't in that ocean with them.

But I think that's sort of what you meant, anyway.

And that self-referential 'authorial' narration, when first-person, surely counts as heterodiegesis.

Not sure what you mean by 'self-referential authorial narration'. Example?

If David Attenborough starts referring to himself in the first person ('These sperm whales always remind me of my first orgasm') that still leaves him outside the story of the whales. But, I suppose (ack), inserts him into another story: the Story of First Orgasm.

But in When We Are Human, the narration takes place in the second person, i.e. it's not bugs doing the acting but the reader. Although I guess that is pedantic - we think of the bugs as outside ourselves, never mind how many 'we's there are strewn around the story.

See what I mean? Complicado!

[viva-gloria.livejournal.com]

Your Attenborough example -- narrator outside the story -- is what I meant, give or take; but leaves me with a terrifying image of Attenborough / whale fic. (I'm afraid I'm leaving the execution of this to you!)

Yes, had forgotten the second-person in 'When We Are Human' (here, forgetfulness=coping mechanism due to prolonged absence of much-appreciated Key Author) -- it's distinctly the reader who sees (or doesn't), whose face is pressed (by the author) to the glass, without being able to reach in and influence the events.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

I know! I launched into Attenborough example with all intent of academic innocence when wale images attacked me from behind and corrupted my brain! *shudders*

And I feel, on second thoughts, too spooked by analysing *my own fic* so, ack, I will desist.

[vasiliki.livejournal.com]

"The narrator can play a role in the diegesis without understanding that role at all -- extreme example, eyebrowofdoom's 'Flint' (I think) with truly clueless 1st-person narrator"
Yes, but that narrator is still nevertheless a heterodiegetic narrator because Billy is part of the story, very much so.

I think you mistyped here. Viva gloria said 'heterodiegetic' and you corrected her by typing again 'heterodiegetic', but you apparently mean homodiegetic.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Haha!

Homo, hetero -- it's the *associations* of those prefixes! They bamboozle me!

Shlomith Rimmon-Kenan, in *her* book on Narrative Fiction, uses the terms extradiegetic and intradiegetic as well (ack), and Mieke Bal doesn't use any of these terms but refers to external narrators and character-bound narrators (helpfully [?] abbreviated to EN and CN).

*brain needs vitamins*

Re:

[vasiliki.livejournal.com]

Rimmon-Kenan is a *woman*? She's mostly quoting from Genette. I found the stuff pretty clear, I must say.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Yes, she's a woman! 'Shlomith', as in 'Shulamith'. Israeli name.

I discovered this only last year myself. Heh.

I have yet to read Genette. *hangs head in shame*