First thoughts on Pirates of the Caribbean

[lobelia321]

I thought it was great fun!!

I went for the Orlando but after the first appearance of Johnny Depp I never looked back. Johnny *dominates* the screen. He was mesmerising in every single scene. When Elizabeth (Keira) got stranded on the desert island with Captain Jack Sparrow (Johnny Depp), I thought, "Go go go!" Of course, she didn't. She chose her Will Turner (Orlando).

Wrong choice, woman!

I hadn't expected it to be so funny but it was. And I do like it a lot if there's action plus great location plus great music plus a brisk plot plus who-cares OTT pirate pastiche and great fun.

Some longueurs in the middle, after the first encounter with the treasure trove in that grotto. But then it picked up again towards the end. Rollicking!

And I still maintain that Bill Turner's (Orlando's dad's) putative death/explosion whatever, is a plot hole. People explained it away for me but it was not made *clear* in the movie, and audiences are left to make it up to their own satisfaction. Not good in this type of a film.

When Orlando first appeared on screen, I do admit I nearly had a seizure, having been so worked up about the man of late. (He appears before Johnny. Once Johnny was in play, my heart was fine!) He actually appeared in a comic scene, and I haven't seen him have to be funny before. It was good, and I'm sorry that he only had the chance to do 2 or 3 comic scenes in the entire film. There wasn't really much scope for him to shine, it has to be said. He had the great sword fight scene with Johnny but after that he went a bit wussy, mostly trailing after Johnny, mooning after Keira and hanging round in the sidelines. He also did a great deal of that wrinkled brow thing: he does that as Legolas (puzzled at Boromir's death) and in Midsomer Murders (lost your bottle, Jack?). Am getting worried that he's not expanding his facial-expression range. But, on the whole, he acquitted himself well. It shows, though, that age may help to loosen people up. Johnny was just so more *relaxed* and into it and eking out the subtleties of his character.

Yes, Johnny Depp: simply brilliant. What a performance! *is in a swoon* And what sharp looks! Ach, and he's my age, too....

Jack Davenport: good. Not much scope there as sort-of baddie but creditable enough and always a joy to behold.

I could rant about the pathetic role assigned to women in this film with token Keira being helpless much of the time, and sassy Johnny-Depp companion wheeled on for all of 1 1/2 minutes screentime. I used to rant about the lack of good women at great length. Now, that I am slashified, I can't but welcome the presence of great numbers of men, alas.

Moral dilemma!!!


But that bit at the end after the credits? For those who haven't seen the film: don't bother to stay for it. The credits are tediously long, and the bit is not worth it.

Comments

[cherry-glitter.livejournal.com]

Arr!

And I still maintain that Bill Turner's (Orlando's dad's) putative death/explosion whatever, is a plot hole.

*cough*sequel*cough*

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Okay. Well, that makes it even more tedious. But well-spotted!

[calicokat.livejournal.com]

And I still maintain that Bill Turner's (Orlando's dad's) putative death/explosion whatever, is a plot hole.

Hmm? You must not have had it explained to you very well. Bill, under the curse, was tied to a canon and thrown over the side of the Pearl by Barbossa. It's not so much that it matters where he is right now, as that he can't be found. If he's still tied to the canon, they don't know where they dropped it and the seabed in the open Caribbean ocean isn't too shallow in a lot of places, despite popular belief. If he got off the canon, they're even more out of luck, but where would they look in the first place? So, basically, whether he was tied to a canon for nine years and died when the curse was broken or just made himself scarce doesn't matter to the plot of the actual movie, because he's MIA, and they need to pay the blood sacrifice with Will's blood, instead. And yeah, possible he'll show up in the sequal (see icon ^_^;;).

Meanwhile, Orlando's eyebrows don't seem very mobile, sadly. I'm not sure if he'll ever improve by way of facial expressions. That really nagged at me too.

[bunnysquee.livejournal.com]

colour me really stupid, but i didn't understand why they needed bill turner's blood in the first place. i mean, he wasn't the one who stole the chest of gold things in the first place, was he?

unless bill escaped from the cannon thing, he would have drowned when the curse was lifted and turned back from a ghost to a man, yeah?

[dantana.livejournal.com]

mean, he wasn't the one who stole the chest of gold things in the first place, was he?

True, but he took a piece of gold and sent it off to his son in England.

[bunnysquee.livejournal.com]

ah, right. so when the last medallion was returned, they needed his blood as a sacrifice for separating the collection... ?

[calicokat.livejournal.com]

I didn't get it the first time I saw the movie either (although my friend Trish did, proving that it is actually possible if you're paying attention to the right things).

The curse upon the gold is that any man who removes a single coin from it will be cursed until *all* the gold is returned to the chest and *every* man who has taken a coin from it has repaied his blood to the chest. The whole thing seems to kind of work in innings. Once the curse is in play, the debt of blood keeps building and building.

Everyone on the Pearl at the time they first found the chest took gold from the chest for himself, this includes the monkey and Bill Turner. Everyone but Bill Turner put their blood back in the chest. The chest still needed Bill's blood, but it keeps a running tally of the blood it already has. So, for example, Barbossa doesn't need to bleed again this inning even though he takes a few coins out of the chest and drops them back in.

During this inning, Jack also took a coin from the chest. So even though he took it at a different time than everyone else, the curse needed his blood too. (Some people don't notice the quick bit where he slices his hand and bleeds on the coin and throws it to Will, but he does).

Once Will drops the coins with his Bill-derivied bood and Jack's blood into the chest, the curse lifts.

So, you could say, when the monkey takes another coin at the end of the movie after the credits, a new inning starts. Anyone who takes a coin after the monkey will have to find the monkey and spill its blood in the chest to lift their own curse, but now that the first inning is over, it's likely none of the previous 'players' are in any way affected.

And yes, he would have drowned, or possibly imploded, depending on how deep he was in the water at the time and how much water pressure there was. Of course, I'd like to think after nine years you could get yourself off a canon, but hey...

[bunnysquee.livejournal.com]

ooo... i feel really stupid now. i had no idea that the others had bled into the chest, too. and i have seen the movie twice. thank you so much. that makes perfect sense now.

[calicokat.livejournal.com]

That's the bit I didn't register right, too. ^_^ It's when they're going to spill Elizabeth-who-they-yet-think-is-Bill's-child's blood and Barbossa is rallying the men:

Barbossa: And who among us has paid the blood sacrifice owed to the heathen gods?
Pirates: ::all yell their affirmatives::
Barbossa: And whose blood has yet to be paid?
Pirates: Hers!
Barbossa: ::to Elizabeth, then:: You know the first thing I’m going to do after the curse is lifted? ...eat a whole bushel of apples.

[bunnysquee.livejournal.com]

oh my word! i do remember that scene. and i can't even blame Orli or Johnny Depp for distracting me :-P

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

I missed this. But the fault still lies with the script writers, not with us. Redundancy is built into all successful Hollywood scripts precisely *because* audiences miss things. It is a weakness that this rather crucial plot point gets mentioned only once, and that in a context where we are paying attention to different things.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

So if they needed his blood, why did they chuck Bill Turner into the sea?

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Aha! Thank you! Well: I am now going to maintain that the curse thing is a plot weakness. If you pick this up only after second or more viewings, it is a script weakness (in this kind of film - we're not talking "Memento", after all).

I am satisfied as to the blood thing, but still not satisfied as to the whereabouts of Bill Turner.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

after nine years you could get yourself off a canon, but hey...



So there is possibly a Darth Vader/Luke Skywalker moment coming up in the next film...???

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Aha! Good point!! Yes, why the dickens did they need Bill Turner's blood?????

Have you seen this movie more than once and looked out for a possible explanation??

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

I've had different explanations. They are all equally elaborate and speculative. This is the problem: *our* explanations make sense but we should not be having to supply our own explanations. A dyed-in-the-wool Hollywood movie should be doing the explaining itself, in the script. Even if the pirates are not sure where he is, they should state this - and why aren't they worried if Bill Turner is at a loose end? No matter how you turn it, it's a plot hole they've left open for audiences to stuff.

[bunnysquee.livejournal.com]

When Orlando first appeared on screen, I do admit I nearly had a seizure...

word.

in fact, i pretty much agree with all your comments. johnny depp definitely ruled the movie - without him the movie would have been pretty lame, even with the delicious Orli. i think i remember Orli moaning in an interview [it might have been in premiere magazine] that he wasn't allowed to do much, because he was the straight man, a stick in the mud was, i think, how he described will turner. i think he also spent most of his time laughing at or admiring what a great actor is johnny depp, as he himself didn't have much to do.

and yeah, poor jack davenport wasn't given much to do at all.

and the bit after the credits - scared the bejesus out of me! and i'm a fraidy cat to begin with. the second time i saw pirates, i didn't bother staying for it.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

*adores Orli for bemoaning his stick-in-the-mudness* So he was *required* to play Will Turner straight, was he??

Do you happen to know where this Premiere article is downloaded anywhere?

[jaydk.livejournal.com]

Johnny rocked, no doubt, but I really enjoyed the rest of the cast as well, especially Orlando and Keira. I think they both did a good job with the less-colorful, romantic roles -- I liked the strong will and determination Keira gave Elizabeth, and the earnestness and passion Orlando played with Will. I thought Orlando did particularly well with the romantic stuff -- it's basically all on him to carry that part of the plot until the end of the movie, and I think he made it very real. Will is very moral, very concerned with right and wrong, but Orlando made it believable that Will set aside all considerations to do what needed to be done to save Elizabeth.

The first time I saw Pirates, it was all about Johnny's performance for me. Having seen it, uh, several times since ;-), I appreciate what the entire cast does, as well as the clever writing and just the general fun of the whole thing. I think it's a movie that fires on all cylinders, and really that's pretty rare, especially when it comes to summer blockbusters.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Oh, good point about the seeing it several times. I'm sure I'll be able to fit in another viewing (not sure how often the kids will actually be able to endure more than that... heh) but yes, views often change with second viewings.

[thejennabides.livejournal.com]

And I still maintain that Bill Turner's (Orlando's dad's) putative death/explosion whatever, is a plot hole. People explained it away for me but it was not made *clear* in the movie, and audiences are left to make it up to their own satisfaction.

This bothers me more and more each time I see it. I have not heard a satisfactory explanation yet. I find the whole notion that they sunk him, and he couldn't die, really quite disturbing. Was he still alive right up until the moment Will dropped the bloodied coins in the trunk? Had some sea creature come along and bitten his head off before then?

He also did a great deal of that wrinkled brow thing

MUSKRAT!

he does that as Legolas (puzzled at Boromir's death)

*blinkblink*

holy macaroni. I hadn't even made the connection, but did you know that is the thing that made me fall for Orlando in the first place? his expression at Boromir's death? muskrit!Orli has been my one true love all along...

But that bit at the end after the credits? For those who haven't seen the film: don't bother to stay for it. The credits are tediously long, and the bit is not worth it.

I always stay for the credits. just to acknowledge the people who worked on the film. *however* - I, too, have been advising people this little 'extra' is decidedly not worth the wait. so thank you!

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Well, if you 're waiting for the credits for the credits' sake, that is good. But if you're waiting to get to the end bit: don't bother, that's what I meant. I, too, like knowing about second caterer-in-command and apprentice-gaffer but I was with the boys and they were *whining*. Now, of course, they feel all elite'ish, having seen the monkey bit.

And you did not connect Boromir-death-muskrat to Will Turner? Heh!! You! He also has that expression in Midsomer Murders. It's the one expression he draws on. It's a good one but he has to learn a few more.

Bill Turner! The thread has since explained and elaborated but I maintain it is a plot hole and the script writers should have filled it and not left it wide open for audiences to stuff as they see fit. Everyone speculates and has slightly different explanations - that is okay for an arty film but not for a Hollywood script. And if they intend to do something with it in a sequel: even worse. But if audiences are disturbed by Bill Turner's hovering-in-the-ether body, so surely must the pirates! And they don't seem to be! They never speculate!

Total plot hole.

[freyafloyd.livejournal.com]

I was hugely vexed by the plot hole. It is just an aggravation.


It isn't as bad as the many plot holes in the Matrix, but still, it is an annoying plot hole.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Thank *you*!!!! Because it is not a matter of speculating and explaining it away (audiences explaining a plot hole doeth not a plot hole excuse!! -- the audiences shouldn't have to sit around explaining in the first place).

*kicks plot hole*