what i value in fics
Aug. 12th, 2003 08:46 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
lobelia321I finished my first constructive criticism review for ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
zarah5's project today!
Okay, short commercial break for self falling over in amazement at own efficiency and speed, and then on to musings about what I value in fics.
Musings about what I value in fics
It was very interesting writing my first concrit. It felt a bit nervous-making, being so *very* honest, and reminded me of marking students' essays (I know!! Eeek!) and needing to package the bad into a delectable sandwich of the good and the more good. And of trying to think of suggestions as to what might have been done differently.
But the most interesting thing about it was clarifying in my own mind some things that I value about fics. In fact, I sort of *discovered* that these are the things I value as I was preparing the review, because I tried to figure out what yardstick I was using to measure the fic by. This meant thinking about what I value in others' fics as well as what I try to do and to avoid in my own fics plus thinking back to things I have done myself in fics but would not do again (past mistakes -- or what I now identify as mistakes).
POV: I do value a tight pov. I don't like veerings and lapses, and I always notice them. The person whose pov I follow will be: either the "I" (or "you") character, or the third-person character whose feelings get mentioned first. So, if in the second paragraph I hear about Billy's thoughts (for example), I will be taken aback if by the fourth paragraph I'm inhabiting Orlando's mind.
In published literature, I can cope with multiple pov (a la 19th C. novel); in fact, I admire the skillful handling of multiple pov. In fanfic, I can't remember reading a single multiple pov. Either fics will be one strict pov, or have an alternating structure, typical along the ABABAB model: e.g. section 1 = Bern's pov, section 2 = Karl's pov, section 1 = back to Bern, and so forth. Apart from that, there are lapses.
Author knows all: I like it best if I get the strong sense that the author has thought through everything. Every word is in this fic for a reason, every unspoken word is also not in this fic for a reason. No matter how kooky or experimental or mad something is: if I get the feeling, the author has thought about this and can justify it, I'm in. I like a fic to be the tip on an iceberg of author-thoughts. I like to give myself over to a fic, happy in the knowledge that I am safe in the all-controlling hands of its author.
This does not mean that everything in the plot has to be explained or that there remains nothing else for the reader to do. I love it when there are allusions and hints and the reader has to work a bit. But I love this only when I have the sense that the author deliberately put those allusions and hints there. I do not enjoy fics where hints and plot gaps seem to be there because the author herself doesn't know the answer.
I often write fics on intuition. So when I say I love omnipotent author-control, I do not mean that everything in the fic has to be plotted out in advance. It is more a sense that the author has followed her intuition, and that the intuition (or muses, or whatever you like to call it -- that thing that seems to operate outside our conscious wills when we are writing) has led them with sure footing.
If you don't understand what I mean, I might need to use examples. But I fear that I could offend the authors whose examples I use. I might have to make up examples, or use my own fics.
There are other things I could muse about, many others, incl. characterisation, consideration of the audience you are addressing, use of tenses, use of trite attributes, the inclusion of secondary characters (e.g. a host of LotR actors when the story focuses on just one pairing), the use of metaphor, the relationship of the first paragraph to the last paragraph, the relationship of title to fic, the consistency of theme, verbs of locution -- but, like Scarlett, I will leave those musings for another day.
zarah5's project today!Okay, short commercial break for self falling over in amazement at own efficiency and speed, and then on to musings about what I value in fics.
Musings about what I value in fics
It was very interesting writing my first concrit. It felt a bit nervous-making, being so *very* honest, and reminded me of marking students' essays (I know!! Eeek!) and needing to package the bad into a delectable sandwich of the good and the more good. And of trying to think of suggestions as to what might have been done differently.
But the most interesting thing about it was clarifying in my own mind some things that I value about fics. In fact, I sort of *discovered* that these are the things I value as I was preparing the review, because I tried to figure out what yardstick I was using to measure the fic by. This meant thinking about what I value in others' fics as well as what I try to do and to avoid in my own fics plus thinking back to things I have done myself in fics but would not do again (past mistakes -- or what I now identify as mistakes).
POV: I do value a tight pov. I don't like veerings and lapses, and I always notice them. The person whose pov I follow will be: either the "I" (or "you") character, or the third-person character whose feelings get mentioned first. So, if in the second paragraph I hear about Billy's thoughts (for example), I will be taken aback if by the fourth paragraph I'm inhabiting Orlando's mind.
In published literature, I can cope with multiple pov (a la 19th C. novel); in fact, I admire the skillful handling of multiple pov. In fanfic, I can't remember reading a single multiple pov. Either fics will be one strict pov, or have an alternating structure, typical along the ABABAB model: e.g. section 1 = Bern's pov, section 2 = Karl's pov, section 1 = back to Bern, and so forth. Apart from that, there are lapses.
Author knows all: I like it best if I get the strong sense that the author has thought through everything. Every word is in this fic for a reason, every unspoken word is also not in this fic for a reason. No matter how kooky or experimental or mad something is: if I get the feeling, the author has thought about this and can justify it, I'm in. I like a fic to be the tip on an iceberg of author-thoughts. I like to give myself over to a fic, happy in the knowledge that I am safe in the all-controlling hands of its author.
This does not mean that everything in the plot has to be explained or that there remains nothing else for the reader to do. I love it when there are allusions and hints and the reader has to work a bit. But I love this only when I have the sense that the author deliberately put those allusions and hints there. I do not enjoy fics where hints and plot gaps seem to be there because the author herself doesn't know the answer.
I often write fics on intuition. So when I say I love omnipotent author-control, I do not mean that everything in the fic has to be plotted out in advance. It is more a sense that the author has followed her intuition, and that the intuition (or muses, or whatever you like to call it -- that thing that seems to operate outside our conscious wills when we are writing) has led them with sure footing.
If you don't understand what I mean, I might need to use examples. But I fear that I could offend the authors whose examples I use. I might have to make up examples, or use my own fics.
There are other things I could muse about, many others, incl. characterisation, consideration of the audience you are addressing, use of tenses, use of trite attributes, the inclusion of secondary characters (e.g. a host of LotR actors when the story focuses on just one pairing), the use of metaphor, the relationship of the first paragraph to the last paragraph, the relationship of title to fic, the consistency of theme, verbs of locution -- but, like Scarlett, I will leave those musings for another day.
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(no subject)
Date: 2003-08-12 05:05 pm (UTC)victimwriter is in a different fandom and I didn't realize how much that would throw me off my stride. So this gets me on track again, thank you.(no subject)
Date: 2003-08-13 05:51 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-08-12 09:46 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-08-13 05:52 am (UTC)Heh.
Are you on the concrit thingy as well???
(no subject)
Date: 2003-08-13 11:04 am (UTC)No. It looks like such fun, but the last thing I need right now is more deadlines. Hopefully, I can try it the next time around!
(no subject)
Date: 2003-08-13 03:12 am (UTC)The POV thing seems to me to be a problem quite often in slash. Some of it is the fact that, frankly, you can't stick many POVs into what is essentially a short story. (Or is it? Is slash an entirely different genre?) Part of the POV issue is the fact that writers are - I think - most interested in writing as much as possible about the character they are most attracted to in each fic.
In my SB/VM fics, I only write from Sean's POV because I'm interested in his capacity for deep feeling and complete inarticulacy (I mean, as I've invented him...) and also because it frees me up to describe Viggo physically in a way that would be impossible if it were from his POV. But I suppose it comes down to what slash is FOR, no? Among other things, whether it's character-based or sex-incident based, intended to be essentially a short story or a piece of writing intended to Inflame the Passions...
One POV thing I just hate is sections with name-labels to tell us whose POV we are in - this seems to me just lazy a lot of the time, as though the writer can't be bothered to make it clear through the writing. I mean, a writer is a fandom is in a lovely situation - we all already know and care about the chars, it's not like she has to interest us in a set of total strangers.
Ok, this keyboard is annoyingly sticky and I'm sounding like English is my ninth language. More musings, though. Pretty please.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-08-13 05:22 am (UTC)Just some quick replies.
it frees me up to describe Viggo physically in a way that would be impossible if it were from his POV.One POV thing I just hate is sections with name-labels to tell us whose POV we are in
Well, I must say that this particular device doesn't happen to bother me. It can be quite efficient. I have used it myself and don't mind having used it, in retrospect. Especially, as your following statement is not always true:
it's not like she has to interest us in a set of total strangers.
I have written about people whom nobody has cared about, and it is an uphill struggle. It is as if they *were* strangers, even though they are part of the supposed fandom's purview (e.g. Bernard, John Noble, Kiran Shah, Jed Brophy). Sometimes I've resorted to the (cheap, I know) trick of pairing a 'stranger' with a popular character (Viggo!) but it is more satisfying to win readers over with a pairing that seems right but is obscure. Just to say that yes, mostly we do not need to convince our readers but alas, sometimes we do!
More in a new post. Thanks for this. It's got me thinking.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-08-14 01:34 am (UTC)In fanfic, I can't remember reading a single multiple pov.
The pov in WTLY goes between Sean and Orlando, deliberately but without a set pattern (that is, the switches are not partitioned into discrete sections or chapters). Now I'm consumed with worry that the switching comes off as a lapse rather than a choice. Rats.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-08-14 04:39 am (UTC)*rolls eyes*
*pets WTLY*
No, I think the pov shift in WTLY is more what I meant by switching povs, A and B alternating. This is not uncommon in fanfic. By multiple pov (and perhaps I'm simply using the wrong term here), I mean the omniscient author kind of pov found in 19th C. novels where you veer easily from person A to person B to person C, back to A, to C, on to D, into a passerby on the road, back to A, and so forth.
That's rare in fanfic, perhaps because we are so focused on *pairings*; we don't really do tapestries of internality. Also, it's a device that may be more suited to the novel, not to the short story.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-08-22 07:26 pm (UTC)Personally, I like to mix constructive criticism with praise on most reviews; because nobody's perfect, and we all want to help each other improve. I believe - and I've discussed this briefly with Gabby - that directing/theatre students are so used to just coming out and being brutally honest that it carries over into our analyses. In the end, no matter how harsh the criticism (if it is done with respect and the sincere desire to assist improvement), it can only help. So I'm all about it.
Some of my #1 issues with amateur - or professional - writing, from a director's perspective:
1) Viewpoint, which you mentioned. Very rarely can an author get away with using more than one POV (I think that Zarah's Diptych is an exception and excellent example of dual-viewpoint, because she uses multiple perspectives simultaneously and creatively), and whenever it is used the boundaries and switches must be clearly drawn. Roving POV drives me nuts; there's no grounding, no stability.
2) Putting concept ahead of narrative/plot (I am so guilty of this one, but I'm working on it).
3) Creating and taking ownership of the space.
4) Establishing relationships.
Your arguments are excellent, and backed by some brilliant imagery! I like what you said about the author being in control...many times, especially with never-ending multi-chapter WIPs, I lose interest because I feel as if the author is just making stuff up and rambling to keep the narrative progressing. There always has to be a general final destination for me, something to move towards.
Feel free to use my work for bashing if you need some. As I said, it can only lead to improvement! Thank you for posting such a well-thought-out analysis, I thoroughly enjoyed it.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-08-26 03:10 pm (UTC)Oh, but I have a *second* one! *gnashes teeth*
Roving POV drives me nuts; there's no grounding, no stability.
It depends, I think, on whether it is done well. Most people cannot do it. I certainly can't so I keep within my limits although one of these days I will write an experimental fic, just in order to practise multiple pov. Am just reading a run-of-the-mill 19th C. bestseller, Ben-Hur, and it's full of multiple pov. Will report back on how it's done.
Thanks for commenting! ;-)