i've seen rotk11
Dec. 22nd, 2003 10:51 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
lobelia321So no more spoilers, more's the pity.
I've seen it once.
What I did not like:
1) Too long. We came out cranky and faint and with blood sugar levels way down, despite having brought along a picknick bag and oodles of Kaetzchen. Bollywood is often 4 hours long but Bollywood it ain't. Also: B'w has an intermission!
2) "Go home, Sam!"
I vomited quietly into my Kaetzchenbag at this point.
Actually, t'h and I stared at each other and made vomit faces.
3) Relentlessly swelling music all the time. No Alexander Nevsky moment at all.
4) Arwen's love child. In fact, the whole ridiculous Arwen "Do I, don't I" subplot, and Agent Elrond's I'm-a-dark-lord-except-I'm-not secret mission to Aragorn.
5) Too many tears on screen. This left no room for my own tears. If the entire cast is weeping, what is left for me to do? I felt cheated of my Whiskas moments!! (But see below.)
6) Gollum. I have come to the conclusion that Andy Serkis is not the world's best actor, and it just takes longer to notice than it does, say, with Mr Bloom, because he's veiled by pixels.
7) Shelob.
What a waste of an arthropod!
What I did like:
1) Charge of the Rohirrim.
One of my two weepster moments. Made my hair stand on end and was the one moment when (in t'hs words), PJ approached the epic quality of Tolkien. Theoden clattering along the spears, "Death!" -- what a moment!! The absolute highlight.
2) The lighting of the beacons. (*waves at![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
natasha1805 Wonderful, grand, beautiful.
3) The orcs on Pelennor Field. Doing their Kiwi haka and just all of them. I could have looked at them for hours.
4) And especially Total Recall orc with the porridge face. Woohey! Anyone know the actor?????
5) Denethor!! My favourite character in film 3. He was everything I knew he would be. And the only one whose acting was at all memorable.
6) Close-ups of orcish props. The fighting machines and the nuts and bolts of them!
7) Fly-through-the-air shots from the pov of projectiles. Loved those.
8) Not another flaming steward crushing some hapless Gondorean to death. A nice touch.
9) Minas Tirith!! Oh, Richard Taylor, you and your bigatures! Breathtaking.
10) Gargoyle with tongue outside Minas Morgul.
What I found interesting and/or amusing:
1) Pippin's Eurovision Song Contest pseudo-celtic chant. T'h made more vomiting faces but I found it, in its cheesiness, strangely close to Tolkien's own dreadful doggerel (which, mercifully, PJ mostly axed).
2) The reduction of Legolas's screentime to 5 percent. Was the furrowing of the brow finally too much even for PJ and co??
3) No Scouring of the Shire.
Well, I can see why they left it out but actively to change the ending to Untouched Shire, I think, left plot lines unfurled (althoughnatasha1805 disagrees). Saruman? Wormtongue? Spirited away. It also, of course, means that Lobelia Sackville-Baggins doesn't get her crowning moment. I don't know -- it left me unfulfilled.
4) The army of the dead. Quite interestingly done.
5) Inserting Christianity into Tolkien. The one thing about LotR (book) is that it is so relentlessly anti- or non-religious. But PJ inserted an afterlife! (Gandalf's description of "heaven" to Pippin.)
6) Racial stereotypes neatly preserved those of Tolkien, heh. Goodies: white. Baddies: Maori, black, Asiatic, deformed. Heh.
7) Well, I guess they couldn't put the Barrowdowns blade in to explain how Merry managed to kill the Witch King but still...
The movie did make me re-read the Cirith Ungol chapter (the *real* Cirith Ungol, forever my favourite part of the book 4 evah + evah), and it did make me (or rather t'h, who snatched t'book from my hands) read out loud the killing of the Witch King scene. And the Charge of the Rohirrim.
I've seen it once.
What I did not like:
1) Too long. We came out cranky and faint and with blood sugar levels way down, despite having brought along a picknick bag and oodles of Kaetzchen. Bollywood is often 4 hours long but Bollywood it ain't. Also: B'w has an intermission!
2) "Go home, Sam!"
I vomited quietly into my Kaetzchenbag at this point.
Actually, t'h and I stared at each other and made vomit faces.
3) Relentlessly swelling music all the time. No Alexander Nevsky moment at all.
4) Arwen's love child. In fact, the whole ridiculous Arwen "Do I, don't I" subplot, and Agent Elrond's I'm-a-dark-lord-except-I'm-not secret mission to Aragorn.
5) Too many tears on screen. This left no room for my own tears. If the entire cast is weeping, what is left for me to do? I felt cheated of my Whiskas moments!! (But see below.)
6) Gollum. I have come to the conclusion that Andy Serkis is not the world's best actor, and it just takes longer to notice than it does, say, with Mr Bloom, because he's veiled by pixels.
7) Shelob.
What a waste of an arthropod!
What I did like:
1) Charge of the Rohirrim.
One of my two weepster moments. Made my hair stand on end and was the one moment when (in t'hs words), PJ approached the epic quality of Tolkien. Theoden clattering along the spears, "Death!" -- what a moment!! The absolute highlight.
2) The lighting of the beacons. (*waves at
natasha1805 Wonderful, grand, beautiful.3) The orcs on Pelennor Field. Doing their Kiwi haka and just all of them. I could have looked at them for hours.
4) And especially Total Recall orc with the porridge face. Woohey! Anyone know the actor?????
5) Denethor!! My favourite character in film 3. He was everything I knew he would be. And the only one whose acting was at all memorable.
6) Close-ups of orcish props. The fighting machines and the nuts and bolts of them!
7) Fly-through-the-air shots from the pov of projectiles. Loved those.
8) Not another flaming steward crushing some hapless Gondorean to death. A nice touch.
9) Minas Tirith!! Oh, Richard Taylor, you and your bigatures! Breathtaking.
10) Gargoyle with tongue outside Minas Morgul.
What I found interesting and/or amusing:
1) Pippin's Eurovision Song Contest pseudo-celtic chant. T'h made more vomiting faces but I found it, in its cheesiness, strangely close to Tolkien's own dreadful doggerel (which, mercifully, PJ mostly axed).
2) The reduction of Legolas's screentime to 5 percent. Was the furrowing of the brow finally too much even for PJ and co??
3) No Scouring of the Shire.
Well, I can see why they left it out but actively to change the ending to Untouched Shire, I think, left plot lines unfurled (although
natasha1805 disagrees). Saruman? Wormtongue? Spirited away. It also, of course, means that Lobelia Sackville-Baggins doesn't get her crowning moment. I don't know -- it left me unfulfilled.4) The army of the dead. Quite interestingly done.
5) Inserting Christianity into Tolkien. The one thing about LotR (book) is that it is so relentlessly anti- or non-religious. But PJ inserted an afterlife! (Gandalf's description of "heaven" to Pippin.)
6) Racial stereotypes neatly preserved those of Tolkien, heh. Goodies: white. Baddies: Maori, black, Asiatic, deformed. Heh.
7) Well, I guess they couldn't put the Barrowdowns blade in to explain how Merry managed to kill the Witch King but still...
The movie did make me re-read the Cirith Ungol chapter (the *real* Cirith Ungol, forever my favourite part of the book 4 evah + evah), and it did make me (or rather t'h, who snatched t'book from my hands) read out loud the killing of the Witch King scene. And the Charge of the Rohirrim.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-22 04:58 pm (UTC)Actually, it didn't seem long to me at all. During the last viewing (3), I ended up going by myself as various friends and husbands bailed out. I sat completely immobilized for the entire thing, moving only to offer tissues to the men sitting on either side of me as they started to sniffle. I was almost startled when it was over!
Much as I can't really be critical right now, the "go home, Sam," still doesn't sit well with me. I've accepted it, but that's about all. I will need to wait for the extended DVD so Phillippa Boyens can explain at great length why they had to do it this way. She just managed to sell me on TTT-Faramir the other day.
I don't think I've ever seen so many tears in a single movie. The result was that once I started, I never really stopped.
See, I love movie-Gollum. Sure, Andy's performance is OTT and cartoonish, but to me that's how the character has always seemed anyway. Maybe I'm influenced by the book-and-record of The Hobbit that I always listened to as a child.
The best part about Shelob was not the spider herself(I think I'm a bit jaded about CGI creatures at this point), but the tension of the whole scene. The best part for me was Frodo standing in the pass when he thinks he's in the clear, and Shelob is hanging over him, out of sight. Good, old-fashioned horror-movie stuff!
And yes, the Rohirrim charge and the lighting of the beacons- these are the places I get choked-up on during subsequent viewings.
I knew you'd love the orcs and their "equipment." Loved the detail of the siege machinery as well. I can hardly bear to look at "porridge-face," (my friend calls him the 'allergy-attack-orc'), but I had a feeling you'd dig him, you crazy woman! *g*
I became comfortable with no Scouring of the Shire a long time ago- I do agree that the Saruman-conclusion really isn't satisfactory, though, and hope that it's remedied in the extended DVD. After seeing the movie, I am convinced that including the Scouring would have been very anticlimactic. Having the Black Gate was already overkill, and good lord, by then we'd all been through enough!
I do think a part could have been found for Lobelia Sackville-Baggins- why not have her be Rosie Cotton's evil stepmother, and poor Sam's even more evil mother-in-law? Now that would have been a juicy role for you!
Okay, need to shut up now. Once I get started talking about this movie, I can't stop!
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-23 11:02 am (UTC)I noticed time passing in Rotk because my tum started growling. I did delve into my picnic bag and extract a sandwich but still. The delving detracted.
How did Philippa sell you on TTT-Faramir? Also, if you need external explanations the movie has not done its job. Should be self-explanatory. I think I get the 'Go home, Sam' but it is a travesty and I can't help vomiting because I've realised that one reason I've endured in this fandom is that I actually love the book! And I can't bear to see it substance travestied. (Substance not bits of it: I know they must switch things about for the movie but the substance of Sam/Frodo my first and only book OTP.)
I can't get into movie Gollum. The best Gollum was in FotR because only hinted at. Gollum is, to me, the only ambiguous creature in Tolkien's book which is why I love him. Everyone else is unequivocally bad or good; with Gollum, the lines are blurred. This was not evident in Andy's acting.
Oh, and I'm with you on the being jaded with CGI... That spider was just not scary enough. I mean, this is Shelob!! She is older and more evil than Sauron himself!
Rohirrim, beacons, orcs... *sigh*
I can see why there's no Scouring. For me, the movie ended with the kneeling before the hobbits scene and then it started to drag. But to make it so that the Shire is untouched... I don't know. I'll have to ponder that one.
Let's talk!!! I will send you my phone nr via email and you can send me mine and we can ring each other up! (We may faint from the shock.)
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-23 10:17 pm (UTC)How did Philippa sell you on TTT-Faramir? Also, if you need external explanations the movie has not done its job. Should be self-explanatory.
She explained how they had gone to such lengths to make clear just how strong the influence of the ring was, and how making Faramir seem completely immune to its lure would destroy all of that. To be honest, I've always had a problem with book-Faramir anyway, for that very reason. It just didn't seem plausible that he could be practically indifferent to the lure of the ring when even Gandalf and Galadriel weren't. Everyone I've talked to who hasn't read the book thought Faramir was just fine and wondered what I was going on about. But not including the flashback scene with Boromir from the E-DVD was still a mistake I think. Even those who hadn't read the books would have benefitted from the deeper characterization.
because I've realised that one reason I've endured in this fandom is that I actually love the book! And I can't bear to see it substance travestied.
See, I think this may be the critical difference between us. At some point, I became completely willing to accept the movies almost completely separately from the books, even the tampering with substance, to a large degree. Maybe it's just because I've seldom enjoyed anything so much as I have these movies, and I just don't really care anymore if they differ substantially from the books. That being said, I'm still having a hard time with "Go home, Sam." Stay tuned while I come up with a convoluted explanation I can live with. *g*
Everyone else is unequivocally bad or good; with Gollum, the lines are blurred. This was not evident in Andy's acting.
Oh, I didn't see it that way at all. To me, Andy's version of Gollum is not black and white. Sure, he's bad, but he's also pitiful, and sometimes, rather cute.
Yes, we need to talk, don't we? I'll e-mail you!
uh hi you dont know me but ummm
Date: 2003-12-22 05:39 pm (UTC)i shall love you 4 eva for that comment. i turned to my sis in the theater and said "oh look english cheddar" and she hit me cause she was crying and i was too but it was so tolkien song-o-rific!
not that you asked me my opinion but the thing that upset me beyond reason was the ending of the movie. how did you feel about that? and what of bernard hill's performance?
ps happy holidays
Re: uh hi you dont know me but ummm
Date: 2003-12-23 11:04 am (UTC)For me, the film ended with the kneeling down before the hobbits. After that, it dragged. I'm not sure about absence of Scouring. And the Haven just dragged. Too much weeping.
and what of bernard hill's performance?
Very good!
Happy hols to you too, Office!
Re: uh hi you dont know me but ummm
Date: 2003-12-23 01:32 pm (UTC)i adored bernard hill and john noble's performances both. they were outstanding and i only wish we had seen the later more...
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-22 05:46 pm (UTC)That would be Lawrence, luv. *grins*
T'h made more vomiting faces but I found it, in its cheesiness, strangely close to Tolkien's own dreadful doggerel
That's because it *was* Tolkien's own dreadful doggerel. ;)
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-23 11:06 am (UTC)Oh yes!! I'm so glad you know these things!!! Lawrence!!!! *sigh* What a man. He is brilliant!
That's because it *was* Tolkien's own dreadful doggerel.
*laughs and laughs*
Yes, I might have known! But I also meant the pseudo-celtic tune! Which is very suited to the dreadful doggerel! All in all, I didn't mind the scene although I can only read it in an ironic way. :-)
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-23 11:06 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-22 07:55 pm (UTC)anyway, Gamling is a handbag because he said so! i went to a LOTR convention last week and, during a panel, the person who plays Gamling, Bruce Hopkins, said he was hired to be Theoden's handbag and was only supposed to be on-set for a few weeks. fortunately for him, his role evolved to what we see today. so every time i see him, i have to say, handbag! oh, and he called Theoden a ponce! so every time i see Theoden, i have to say, ponce!
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-23 11:08 am (UTC)Heh, as you may have guessed I am in a down-on-Orli phase of my life at the moment... I really love him only for the curls. The blonde wig does not cut it for me. Although he does have a nice complexion. And gotta love that shy willie... *winks*
Bruce the handbag!! I love that!!!!!
So, Bunnykins, you can have Orlando to yourself and with relish! I'll take John. *g*
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-23 11:20 am (UTC)Bruce was quite lovely and very funny. he does a lot of conventions, which of course you do not attend. he did not pash anyone though ... that i know of :-D