my 78 pence on troy

[lobelia321]

All right already. Before I scroll back to anyone else's reviews (and I think I've read most of them already, being not nearly as spoiler averse as The Abiding One), here are some more thoughts on Troy.



Although that would be an intriguing topic, too, and I could blather on about my countryman Schliemann.

I loved Troy.

And it's been growing on me ever since yesterday.

People quibbled about:

- the music
Didn't bother me. At salient moments it stopped (brilliant no-music diegetic-sound scene of Hector/Achilles battle) so in fact, I think the music was handled in a more effective way than in RotK where a carpet of swelling tones depleted the battle effectiveness for me.

- Brad as Achilles
I thought Brad was fucking brilliant as Achilles. I went in thinking, oh gads, Brad Pitt, Achilles, hahaha. But Achilles is a hero; he's a demi-god; and I think choosing a mega-star to play this role was spot on. Because the star aura adds that bit of something you need for a demi-god. So as we see him striding along, we're thinking, "ooh, it's Brad Pitt" (recognition for one!) just as the heroes of yore thought, "ooh, it's Achilles". Also, there's a reason why Brad is a superstar: the man can act. And he can act this role particularly well.

- the cousins
Okay, a lot of cousins where Homer has none: Patroclus, Briseis, la-de-da. I didn't care. In fact, I thought by making Patroclus a 'cousin' they got around the thorny problem of homosexuality and Hollywood by alluding to it (it's a veiled reference, it's *code*) without naming it. So I thought it was quite a stroke of inspiration, actually. And Briseis -- well, they tightened that up into a neat little story.

- how it's not Homer
I didn't mind! I didn't care! I thought I would but I didn't. It occurred to me that this epic is 3,000 years old and has survived more versions than anyone could shake a stick at, from Virgil to the Simpsons, and the Iliad itself is a version of something else previously circulating in oral form. It's like the Bible: you can have endless versions. I myself know the story through children's versions and only read the Iliad (in translation so that's another version) last year so the movie is yet another version, and a jolly good one, too. And the story is simply a cracking yarn so it stands up to any amount of versionifying.

- lack of gods
I was surprised by this quibble because I thought there were actually a lot of gods. They weren't shown but they were constantly being talked about so to anyone in the know the gods were evident and everywhere (clever touch, giving Thetis the shell necklace) and for the purposes of the film: no additional cast of thousands to confuse viewers and detract from the warriors.

What I think it is:
I think Troy is a big, panoramic Hollywood swords'n'sandals genre film, along the lines of the late 1950s sword'n'sandals epics. In fact, it reminded me of Jason and the Argonauts with its harsh white light, its tacky costumes, its cheesy dialogue and its digi-soldiers (well, they weren't digi yet in Jason but oh, that Harryhausen).

I'm puzzled by all those quibblers and critics who thought it ought to be something else, more arty perhaps, better acted perhaps. What I liked was that it was just what it was with no pretensions to anything else, a no nonsense Hollywood cheesy grand movie, and that it was an example of good solid Hollywood craft. And if you accept that it's a sword'n'sandal film, then the cheesiness is what you *need* because the cheesiness is part and parcel of that genre.

There was even a bit of self-irony in there (the audience howled with laughter at several points throughout, and that's got to be good!). And it kept me enthralled for 2 1/2 hours with only 2-3 slight longueurs.

The characters were introduced very efficiently. Never, unlike in Ned Kelly was I lost as to who's who. My sister who didn't know the story had no trouble following. With a cast of thousands, it's simply good Hollywood craft the way they introduced characters bit by bit and built up the cast of brothers, fathers, sons, kings, princes and oh yes, cousins.

Brad Pitt outside the Trojan gates yelling "Hector!" was just outstanding. I thought his acting captured the bestiality of Achilles perfectly, the way he can't be contained. Of course, a real warrior fighting machine would have a somewhat more ravaged body but then again, he's a demi-god, so I didn't mind him being so beautiful.

Oh, and the costumes of the Myrmidons! Achilles in his sort of black bathrobe thing! And in the sarong! The Trojans in blue!

The actors: well, the drool factor. I didn't find myself drooling quite as much as I'd expected, perhaps, although I was enthralled by Brad all the way through. But I was also not as put off: I had expected worse of Orlando and yes, there was a fair bit of brow wrinkling but I quite liked the scene where he crawls away from Menelaus, I thought he pulled that off well. Eric was good and dependable. The problem with Orlando is that he has no voice. The voice I liked best was Nestor's (don't know the actor's name). Briseis was fine, and the scenes with her and Achilles actually had chemistry and were rather sweet. And Sean Bean was magnificent! That lightness of Odysseus, wonderful.

The plain, the city: great settings with no excessive use of filters and fake sunsets, just plain ole sunshine.

I loved the fighting. These were interesting battles. I liked the way it was chaotic and not Roman: now that's a lot like Homer. And the Achilles/Hector was breathtaking. I loved Achilles' lightness and the way he was so focused. A wonderful shot was the one where he holds the dagger out in front of him with that mad look in his eyes, and there's a zinging sound as of metal ringing, travelling up the dagger right into his face, as if he is the human weapon.

Well, that's all the thoughts I can muster for now. Any others still lurking in brain will have to shut up and put up. Can't wait for the DVD so that I can show it to the boys.

Comments

[yellow-oranges.livejournal.com]

Much fun to read!! You make some very good points. I liked Troy much more than I expected to.

I did a post a few weeks back and part of it read:
Roger Ebert said, "Pitt is modern, nuanced, introspective; he brings complexity to a role where it is not required" and "If Achilles was anything, he was a man who believed his own press releases." My question is, how does Roger know this? It's MYTHOLOGY! By definition myths are "usually [a] traditional story of ostensibly historical events that serves to unfold part of the world view of a people or explain a practice, belief, or natural phenomenon" OR "a person or thing having only an imaginary or unverifiable existence." (Emphasis added) So, Rog, don't get too hung up on the accuracy of Achilles' portrayal, is my advice. I found it much more interesting to have a mercenary, disillusioned Achilles than a cardboard cutout superhero. Oh, and the jump-and-stab thing he does? Especially at the beginning of the movie where I was completely taken by surprise?
o_O Wow. Just wow.

I loved the different costumes and JEWELRY on the young men. *rowr* Nice.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

I found it much more interesting to have a mercenary, disillusioned Achilles than a cardboard cutout superhero.

Oh, but Quailquill, have you read the Iliad? You must because he's not a cardboard cutout. Achilles is wonderful: he's not all good, he's not all bad, he's a mix but he's impressive and he's insane but he also plays the lyre and weeps when Priam comes to see him. I thought Brad Pitt was surprisingly close to the Homeric Achilles (as I see the Homeric Achilles). He was just not as completely overboard after Patroclus's death as the Homeric Achilles (who has umpteen captured Trojans burned on the funeral pyre along with Patroclus). But in Homer, too, Achilles has his introspective moments.

[yellow-oranges.livejournal.com]

I blush to admit that I have not read the Iliad, but now feel I must try. Thanks, lobelia!

[thejennabides.livejournal.com]

Oh Lobelia, how I adore you! Why are you not on AIM, that I might shower you with adoration in person? Everything you said about Brad and Achilles is just what I've been feeling, without articulating. I am absolutely in love with the scene where he comes to the gates of Troy and calls Hector out. I'm probably stating the obvious here, but the filmmakers (I don't know whether to credit Petersen or Benioff, or possibly someone else) used an unusual audio tactic: they violated "protected space." In most Hollywood films, when Hector is saying goodbye to his loved ones, background sound would fade out to allow for moments of intimacy, and to give a sense that in this moment, the characters are safe. Certainly this would have been allowed for his farewell to Andromache, if nothing else. But in Troy, Achilles' calls for Hector pierce every goodbye somewhere - except, interestingly, for the exchange of gazes with Helen. Brilliant.

A wonderful shot was the one where he holds the dagger out in front of him with that mad look in his eyes, and there's a zinging sound as of metal ringing, travelling up the dagger right into his face, as if he is the human weapon.

Oh, now I must see it again, to look for this!

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

You are such a sweetheart! And I was not on AIM because I was writing my HP epic! I'm so glad you love the scene where he yells "Hector", and I hadn't noticed the absence of the safety space but now that you point it out, you are absolutely right. That 'Hector' screaming rings out throughout those scenes; he can't get away from it. I also thought they did something to Brad's voice, had him yell into a bucket or somesuch -- his voice sounded bigger than life, hollow and vast. The voice of fate.

[crazybutsound]

Well... Reading this, I realized just how much more I hated it than I thought, lol.

It just really, really, really annoyed me. If I had to say why, I'd say because it wasn't good acting (though not horrendous outside of Orlando, just very forgettable) and most importantly really clumsily filmed. I couldn't see that Hollywood style epic everybody claims it was. All the shots were cramped and the horse wasn't even shown in any impressive way but with its head cut off from the shots... It just had really big unrealized potential, if you ask me. It was good writing, I agree with that. I actually thought it was very well adapted, but I thought it was poorly directed and acted. *shrugs* I was very bored and annoyed.

Oh well, tastes, eh? We can't all like the same things, lol.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

No, we can't. :-)

[as-i-am.livejournal.com]

Amen!

I thought Brad was MAGNIFICENT as Achilles. And you make a very good point about having him in that role. The cousins thing, yes absolutely!

I think adding the gods in would have made it an entirely different movie altogether. The costumes were beautiful. Orli was actually tolerable!

It was a GREAT movie, and you have to take it at face value, not as an adaptation of the original story. I think that's where some people get hung up. Thank you for saying all of this!

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

and you have to take it at face value, not as an adaptation of the original story.

And of course, there is no "original" story. Even Homer's Iliad is one version among others. I read up on it today a little bit and Aeschylus and Euripides, e.g., have slightly different versions of the tale. It's endlessly versionifiable.

And hey, ladyjackyl, I recognise you! *g*. You are the feedback queen from heaven! *smooches you*

[cherry-glitter.livejournal.com]

It occurred to me, as I watched Achilles fall over dead with one arrow left in his ankle, that perhaps the filmmakers were attempting to show the story of Troy as it really might have happened, before Homer got to it. To show the origins of the myth.

But I haven't been back to see it since coming up with that idea, so I don't know how well it would hold up.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

I've been reading up on this a little and we have no way of knowing what the myth was before Homer got to it. We can only speculate because Homer is it: he's the first we have. The ur-poet. And the ankle thing appears in either Aeschylus or Euripides, I forget which and I've not read either of these although I plan to now! I thought it was rather a fine little allusion in the film, again a nod in the direction of the gods: because it's Thetis who dips baby Achilles in the river Styx and holds him by his heel.

[cupiscent.livejournal.com]

Everything you say is true. And I think it was a very good movie.

But the ending still shits me. It's contrived, all the scaffolding's still showing, like they just threw it together last-minute and couldn't be bothered making it work.

Why is Achilles in the city? Real reason: so Paris can shoot him. Half-assed plot reason: to get Briseis. Who he let go in the first place. Oh, and to "fight his own battle". What? With who? Huh?

After my second viewing, I actually sat down and rewrote the ending so it worked, using the material that we were given. It's just bloody annoying and unfulfilling the way it is. And that's my only quibble.

Oh, that and the one scene where that geometrically-applied daub of dirt isn't there hiding Brad Pitt's smallpox vaccination.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

I'm not so bothered by the scaffolding: that's in the good old tradition of cheesy Hollywood sets with Elizabeth Taylor in a tinsel crown. Admittedly, yes, Achilles bumbling about Troy is a bit blah but even that didn't bother me so much.

And we get to ogle Brad Pitt's smallpox vaccination??? *drools*

[cupiscent.livejournal.com]

And we get to ogle Brad Pitt's smallpox vaccination??? *drools*

Yep. (You weird woman. *G*) I can't remember precisely which scene the make-up slips in, but I think it's somewhere in the sequence where he's letting Priam run off back to the city with the two great loves of his life Briseis and Hector's body. I think.

If you look, all the way through the movie there's a diagonal swipe of dirt over his left bicep. I'd noticed that, and then in one scene it was missing, and the reason it was there became obvious. Then it's back again, but now that you know what it's covering, you can see the faint scar underneath. *G*

I feel like I'm talling you something incredibly salacious here. I repeat: you weird woman. LOL.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Brad PItt's smallpox scar! Kinkier than his glans.

*slobbers*

[brightest-blue.livejournal.com]

What I liked was that it was just what it was with no pretensions to anything else, a no nonsense Hollywood cheesy grand movie, and that it was an example of good solid Hollywood craft. And if you accept that it's a sword'n'sandal film, then the cheesiness is what you *need* because the cheesiness is part and parcel of that genre.

Bingo! That's what I've been trying to formulate and it's been eluding me. The cheesiness of it was right. I remember feeling the same way about Gladiator, (one of my all-time favorites, btw) practically groaning at some of the dialogue and the over-the-topness of it all, but loving it for that as well.

And Brad. Well. I could go on for pages. It took me a long time to get used to the idea of him playing Achilles, and I've always rather liked lusted over him him as an actor, but when he first strode out there against the Theban champion, I BELIEVED.

I did have some quibbles, but taken as a whole, they are rather minor. Nothing that will keep me from owning this movie and watching it several hundred times before I die.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Ah, but *Gladiator* is too good! It's Ridley: it's slick, it looks it, it has real special effects with money and filters and digital smoothing and whatnot. *Troy* is a bit Ray Harryhausen, and the ant-swarming warriors look so digital it's comical. *Gladiator* is not cheesy enough! For one, the music's too original.

Yes, my quibbles, too, are minor. And Brad IS Achilles. I can't imagine anyone else playing Achilles now.

[brightest-blue.livejournal.com]

Well yes, you are right about Gladiator; it's little too slick to be entirely cheesy. And the soundtrack is just divine. That is my main quibble with Troy really. There are a few moments that could have gone from just okay to breathtaking if the music had been right.

I swear, I will write a real review of this as soon as I've seen it again, rather than just nodding my head at everything you say.

Isn't it funny though, how during our last phone conversation we were so mentally prepared for it to be utterly terrible and to hate it? And now, it may be terrible, but in an utterly good way and Brad IS Achilles. Hurrah for low expectations!

[woodcliff.livejournal.com]

You said "zinging sound as of metal ringing, travelling up the dagger right into his face, as if he is the human weapon."

I thought the same thing, except I thought "as if he is the HUMAN IRON PENIS about to pierce through Hector's heart".

Brad Pitt's a very penetrating actor.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Human iron penis!

*falls over backward*

Mwuahahahahha. Penetrate me, Brad.

[childeproof.livejournal.com]

*grumpily*

Clearly I should have gone to this, rather than seeing the worst Hamlet of a lifetime not unduly deprived of Hamlets, and then adding insult to (self-)injury by seeing Altman's The Company today...

Cheering news of Troy's non-awfulness. And comparisons to Jason and the Argonauts are most pleasing. Hurrah.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, you must hive yourself off and betake thyself to Troy! It's grand stuff.

[poornapoleon.livejournal.com]

Brad as Achilles - I thought Brad was fucking brilliant as Achilles. ...

I thought Pitt was right in the role of Achilles because Achilles is a selfish petulant cry-baby, and who better in such a role than a Hollywood superstar? Having said that, kudos to Pitt for taking on what is often an unsympathetic role.

In fact, I thought by making Patroclus a 'cousin' they got around the thorny problem of homosexuality and Hollywood by alluding to it (it's a veiled reference, it's *code*) without naming it.

I agree. Petersen and Benioff have been much cleverer than they're being given credit for. They can point to the lack of anything explicit, and say that this is not a gay movie, yet the homoeroticism is plainly there.

The problem with Orlando is that he has no voice.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Orlando Bloom's career was ruined by the invention of talking pictures. That's not an entirely facetious comment.

Nestor's (don't know the actor's name).

John Shrapnel.

And Sean Bean was magnificent! That lightness of Odysseus, wonderful.

Good though he is, I still think Sean Bean lacks the quicksilver slipperiness that characterizes Odysseus. I can think of actors who do have that quality. One in particular, with the initials VM ...

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Hey, Craig! *g*

But I must differ from you on the subject of Achilles: I don't think he's a petulant cry baby. He is a demi-god and a beast, and I thought Brad *was* those things. He is too big to be merely petulant; his sulk is of epic proportion and good lord, his grief....

Orlando Bloom's career was ruined by the invention of talking pictures.
*bursts out laughing*
But can he mime??

VM? Oh, spare me...