question about world art

[lobelia321]

I'm working on revamping the curriculum of our department. I want to incorporate more non-Western / world art. So here's a quick survey:

What kind of art would interest you most out of the following?

- Islamic
- African
- Chinese
- Indian

I know about equally as little about all of these (except for Chinese; I once did an undergrad course on Chinese painting) so whichever one I end up choosing, it means learning it all from scratch. So it's important to select one that is going to interest people!

I'll ask the students tomorrow but was interested in Friends' response as well! Thank you.

Comments

[msilverstar]

When you say "Islamic" do you mean "Arabic"? Cos there's lots of Islamic art in Africa and India and it's like saying "Christian" vs. "American"...

I'm also getting a bit of a chuckle that they're all Old World -- American Indians, Incas and Mayas had art too, yanno.

Me, I'd enjoy any of those classes.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Islamic is a category used here for certain art objects (by publishers and museum curators). It includes art from the Middle East and North Africa although, technically, Islamic art could come from sub-Saharan Africa, Indonesia, Pakistan etc. -- but the way it's used here is to include things such as Persian manuscripts and calligraphy and the architecture of mosques and fortresses. Does that help?

Yes, you're right, I'm forgetting about North and South America, and I also had to leave out Asia (except for India) and the Pacific -- but I have to limit myself somehow. The background to this is that we've had some funding to buy books and my colleague has bought mostly in the areas I list. Also, I suppose I'm not as interested in the arts of the Americas as I am in the others (this might be different if I actually lived over there, of course) so I did skew my list a bit towards those subjects I'd actually enjoy learning about and teaching.

I'm not sure what you mean by Old World, though.

[msilverstar]

I know about the art-history terms, but your students probably won't, and some of them might be disconcerted. If you said "Middle-Eastern", that would be ever so much clearer.

Old World = Eurasia & Africa, another one of those jargon phrases, nothing important. I was just teasing you about the American art, not to worry.

ye olde worlde

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Hm, do you think prospective students might be disconcerted by the word 'Islamic'? And why, do you think? This is important.

Old World! So you were teasing me! Still, I don't get the terms of the tease! Because Old World / New World seems only to make sense in terms of Western culture. The Old World exported its culture and inhabitants to various parts of the globe that then became colonised New Worlds, like Canada, US, Brazil, New Zealand. But it surely doesn't make sense in terms of the indigenous cultures of those places? Because the Inuit, Aborigines, Aztecs and so forth: they were there already. They are the Old World of those places. Aren't they?

[mandalaya.livejournal.com]

They all are very interesting. Given world events currently, the Islamic art might be especially interesting, and might even lead to better understanding of Islam as a whole, since any study of art has to include lots of cultural, historical and religious information.

I suspect you'd have to break African art down a bit further, as my understanding is that the East and West African cultures and art are quite different, and I think the same is true of the Central and Southern areas. Whatever you decide upon, I'd love to see the curriculum - I'm sure I'd learn something just from that!

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Yes, the current political situation had been in my mind (and in the mind of my colleague when he started buying books on Islamic art). So that would be one reason to want to find out about Islamic art. (Because inevitably, you'd learn a lot about the wider culture, too, as you say.)

I realise that African art is very varied but I know too little about it as yet to be able to differentiate -- that's why I wrote just 'African'. I suspect I would narrow my field based on the holdings of local museums. But I might preserve the word 'African' in the title of a course, anyway, because prospective students would presumably not know all the individual regional names, either. What do you think?

[mandalaya.livejournal.com]

I think it's legitimate to keep "African" in the title, so that students know what you're on about, definitely. I don't know what your local museums have, but I personally find West African culture, art, and music fascinating. Benin, for one, is the origin of voodoo, and has some lovely art.

But Middle Eastern/Islamic is a more timely topic. What really matters is whether you find it exciting, and teach it that way, right? So pick whatever you find the most interesting.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Thank you for that gorgeous link!

It's true, I've got to be excited by it. However, there is also the issue of recruitment. In order to recruit students, I'm willing (even happy) to put my primary excitements aside. Because what I get excited by is mainly academic art of the 19th century. However, I can imagine getting excited about any of these four categories of art which is why I chose them rather than, say, Pacific Island art. Do you think, then, calling something both Middle Eastern and Islamic in the title would interest people? It sounds very political -- and that, unfortunately, is often not what people want from 'Art'.

[mandalaya.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. A friend of mine spent a summer studying Arabic in order to do a master's degree in what she termed Islamic art and architecture, so I think that's the accepted term. However, for clarity, you could just use "Middle Eastern", since that will obviously mean Islamic.

No, I think I like "Islamic" better, as it's not a geo-political term. Although there are people producing Islamic art in many parts of the world, I suspect that most people will assume that the main focus of any course on Islamic art will be the Middle East, whether that's fair or not.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Yes, after getting so many 'Islamic' responses, I did a little research in the library and found out that nearly all books on this topic are called something like 'Islamic art and architecture' so I think that's the accepted term. Anything else is more specialised, like 'Mamluk architecture' or 'Persian manuscripts'.

I'd love to know Arabic. But I'd also love to know Chinese, and currently I'm working my way through a Teach-Yourself-Hindi book.

[mandrill.livejournal.com]

Have to agree with the comment above about Islamic art and would vote for that. I'd second Indian art.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Thanks for joining in! This is very helpful.

[bunnysquee.livejournal.com]

i want to say islamic because islam is mentioned heavily in world events right now, so perhaps it might be most relevant? but then some people might be opposed to teaching anything religious in a school environment.

[novanumbernine.livejournal.com]

i don't think it's actually possible to teach history of art without reference to religion - religion and its institutions have always been the main inspiration/patrons of art.

i also vote islamic!

n.x :)

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Thanks for joining in! And yes, as I said somewhere else on this page, in art history there's really no war around religion as most of the art of this world is /has been religious art.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Thank you for joining in! I, also, think the world-relevance speaks for Islamic art. The religious element can't be avoided in art history: nearly all of European art up to the 19th century is predominantly Christian, and I don't think that puts people off vis-à-vis art at any rate.

[cathexys.livejournal.com]

for reasons i can't really explain, my interest would be indian. maybe b/c i know so little and ought to know more? (not that that wouldn't apply to any of the others, but somehow that's the first on my mind)

any way to do rotating segments?

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

I included Indian because it seemed to me relevant to people living in the UK (where there is such a large Indian/Pakistani community). I, too, am intrigued by Indian art (primarily through my interest in Bollywood!). The idea about rotating is a good one. At the moment, it's not viable because there are only two of us who would be willing to teach this, and it really does mean learning an entire new subject. It took me around two years really to get my head round teaching Film Studies so I want to focus on just one of these arts to begin with. We also have to make slides, buy the books, etc. But maybe a bit further down the line we'll be able to make it rotating!

Thanks for joining in.

[tvillingar.livejournal.com]

Damn. I'd have suggested Indian art but all of these sound interesting. Islamic seems to be the most popular choice and I'm convinced it would also draw interested students. It's so rare that we hear the word islamic in other context than news from Iraq so it should draw people: not everything is blown-up rubble.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Yes, I'm coming round to the idea of Islamic art, simply (although not only) because it's so ethically urgent. And it's odd to open a book on the art (as I now have done) and find captions like 'mosque in Mosul'.

[noblerot.livejournal.com]

I understand what you mean by Islamic art, and I'd vote for that. The work I've seen in mosques is stunning.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Thanks so much for joining in. Yes, I, too, love mosques (no surprise there, what with my love for the Desert Prince...) :-)

[brightest-blue.livejournal.com]

Well, since Japanese isn't on the list, and it's the only one I know anything about, I'll go with the crowd here and vote for Islamic. I'd love to be on the winning side just once! :-) If I voted my real preference, I'd say Chinese.

What's so interesting about Islamic art to me, is that at its height, Arabic artists were banned by religious fiat from representing any living creature. Hence, all of the beautiful geometric and figure-work. Though I don't know if this applied to Sunni, Shiite, or both. Just practically speaking, you'll probably get most student interest in the Islamic, just because of the times.

Where have you been, OMG?

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Where have I been, omg, indeed. I've been doing this kind of stuff! I've been recovering from my failed job interview. I've visited a very posh boarding school in order to drum up interest in studying here. I've been studying schools' and universities' websites with a view to revamping the curriculum and visiting further posh pupils, again in order to get our recruitment up. I' ve been a bit fending off depression, too, and that means one of two things: either I will go online a lot and immerse myself in fanfic (escapist route nr. 1) or I will immerse myself in Bollywood (escapist route nr. 2). Recently, I've taken escapist route nr. 2 (and have, in fact, posted a few things over at bollywood).

Thanks for joining in about the non-Western art. I, too, would have gone for Chinese art, mainly because I did that one course on it and because it is similar to European art in that it has a very sophisticated institutional structure, a long tradition, an art history-writing of its own, theories of art and so forth. It's the least 'non-Western' of the non-Western arts, in a funny way.

But I see the point of Islamic. I see the ethical urgency of it, as well. And well, being a lover of the Desert Prince, I have a built-in love for the aesthetics of mosques and calligraphy... :-)

[brightest-blue.livejournal.com]

Oh, so you have had this thing I have been hearing about: a Real Life? How very interesting! :-) Hopefully all of the effort will bear fruit.
I've had a bout of depression myself- although improving quickly now- so I haven't even looked at your HP fic anymore. I believe the whole pile of it is buried on my dining room table under puppy treats and old newspapers. But now that I'm feeling better, I hope to get back to it soon.

Since Japan is the only country I've visited outside Europe and the Americas I've had a good opportunity to look at and read about their art. I also took a graduate course in Japanese social history which spent some time on art history as well. I adore the little I've seen of the Chinese. There was a fantastic exhibition in Portland nearly ten years ago of artifacts from ancient Chinese tombs. We even got a few Terracotta Warriors! I spent an entire day in there. It was luscious and gorgeous.

But oh! If you teach the Islamic, perhaps you will be inspired to write more DP. *hopes*

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Good heavens, don't worry about the HP fic! I haven't written anything on it in weeks! Please, don't even think about it!

I did a course on Chinese painting during my one year at Berkeley and loved it. But too few people are saying Chinese; I'd better stick with Islamic. And oh yes: it was amusing; I went to do some research in the library today after I collected all the 'Islamic, please' responses and I kept on opening books at pages with various manuscripts illustrating the Shahnamza or Firdausi's tales -- and I read all these when writing DP! Nothing is ever wasted. One might think that one is indulging in lustful philanderings of the fannish type and before one knows it, one is designing a university course, using the selfsame material!

Yes, I have been having a real life. It is interesting, that's true. :-) It's not all good but it's real!

[brightest-blue.livejournal.com]

One might think that one is indulging in lustful philanderings of the fannish type and before one knows it, one is designing a university course, using the selfsame material!

Exactly! At this point, I think I could easily teach a course on WW2, just because of all of the research I've had to do for my fic. As I suspected, slash is practical, and potentially lucrative, even! ;-)

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

!!!!!

It helps, of course, if one is writing Arabian AU or WW2 fic because the knowledge gleaned from researching, say, wingfic might be somewhat less transferable to the real world.

Unless one applied for a job at an aviary.

[brightest-blue.livejournal.com]

*dies laughing*

I could just see the interview at the aviary: "So, I see you have extensive experience with wingfic. Could you please elaborate?"

"Er . . ."

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Well, the transversal ossicular upper thoracic bone would cause the humanoid wing to flap in a seismo-latitudinal fashion while the avian apparatus, of course, ...

And what, btw, does the caption on your icon say??? *presses eye to screen*

[brightest-blue.livejournal.com]

See you could actually pull off the wingfic thing. I would be, "Er, well, one morning Elijah wakes up and says, 'bloody hell! I have wings! Dom won't love me anymore, omg.' Angst and boysex ensue." I would then be escorted out by security.

I think that's the icon that says something like, "by age 25, he'd conquered the known world, and looked good doing it." Telling the whole story on one icon is probably a bit much.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

An exercise in miniaturism: How many words can I actually fit onto an icon?

[brightest-blue.livejournal.com]

I dare you! I'll bet my glasses are thicker and stronger than yours!

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Oh no, I'm very minimalist when it comes to icon-text. :-)

[phineasjones.livejournal.com]

islamic.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Thanks so much for joining in. This is really helpful!

[cupiscent.livejournal.com]

I love Chinese art, and have only fed this by studying it a little (as in, two afternoons in the library and a few gallery visits) for my novel.

That said, I know next to nothing about Islamic art and would be fascinated. What sort of period? Modern only? Or covering the whole period of the dominant Muslim dynastic empires? Because that would be... ooh!

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Thanks for joining in; it's all really helpful. I, too, love Chinese art, especially Chinese landscape painting. On the other hand, like you, I can see my way into Islamic art - partly because of the current world situation (I see the ethical urgency of it) and partly because of a love for that kind of aesthetics. I don't yet know what period; I don't yet know anything much about Islamic art! I like those 15th C. Persian manuscripts, so I'd like to include those. And I'd probably be guided what's in the local museums so that we can go on study visits.

[fivil.livejournal.com]

African. I used to have a book filled with African fairytales, with African art as pictures, it was great. Shame that it probably got lost while moving or something...

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

When I went round the class today, half the students said 'African' and the other half said 'Islamic'. I think I may go with Islamic because of the ethical urgency. Thanks so much for joining in!

[sheldrake.livejournal.com]

I'm also one of these people whose first instinct was to say 'Chinese! 'Cos it's great!' like that, but then went , 'hmm, hang on... no, Islamic! Cos - yeah.'

See, this is what sitting around all day going mad from boredom does to a person's once reasonably competent brain.

Also, I demand that you stop being so popular and getting all these comments.

:)

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

My sentiments exactly. If I had replied to this question, I, too, would have gone 'Chinese! Great!' and then, 'Islamic! Cos yeah.'

So I'm opting for the 'yeah'. My colleague is enthusiastic and we have started to draft the new curriculum. (Things move fast in the land of the non-existing polytechuversities.)

T'h pointed out, "Are you reading that book on Islamic art in order to avoid writing your own book?"

Unfortunately, he speaketh truth. I have been feeling terrible about my own book for months (years) and it seems, my strategies of shirking know no bounds.

Re popularity: I am ashamed of this myself. Not having shown my face round these parts for ages I lure people in with shameless work-related polls.

[sheldrake.livejournal.com]

Yes, polls are good lurers, it seems. People like answering questions.

I'm sorry you are having book problems. Sigh... why do we shirk? I'm a terrible shirker. Sometimes I find myself trying to get out of doing things that I was only doing to distract myself from doing the things I was really supposed to be doing. It can get awfully complicated, being a shirker.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Oh god, you do that? Shirking the shirking!! I feel depressed now.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

I meant to say, of course, 'Oh god, you do that too? Because I do that. Like Russian dolls.

Grrah.

[sheldrake.livejournal.com]

Yes, it's a horrible thing to get into, and even worse to try and get out of. I persist in thinking that making lots of lists will help, but a) the lists become a distraction from the things on them, and b) I then have to invent new things to do to get out of making the lists.

Don't be depressed! At least you're not alone in your shirkiness.