Fragmented musings on the differences from fandom to fandom

[lobelia321]

I know that some of you have been surfing fandoms for years, if not decades. I, however, am a novice to this practice. Or I feel like a novice although actually, I have been 'out' of lotrips and reading in other fandoms for around 1 1/2 years now.

But I'm not getting into these other fandoms. I'm not getting into the communal swooning and drooling. Still, that's not really what this post is about. This post is trying to come to grips with some of the differences among fandoms at the level of fanfic prose style.

In order to figure this out, I went and revisited some old lotrips favourites and it is true: I came across formulations and ways with words I have not encountered like this in any of the other fandoms I've visited since -- and that would be HP, mainly, plus a sprinkling of Stargate and Blake's 7. The comparison is made more interesting by my almost complete and blissful ignorance of Stargate and Blake's 7 canon; I am relying solely upon the fanfic here so am getting maybe a 'purer' dose of fanfic style than if I were familiar with canon (and, for that matter, fanon -- but I take these fics to be representative of some underlying fanon as, after all, each individual fic goes to make up the fanon).

Here are some of the types of sentences I used to find not infrequently in lotrips:

Example 1
He can't stand it, the sight, the sensation; can't stand it, body tensing, weakening; falls back, can't stand, lets the door catch him [...]
[...] begging for Sean's orgasm, for Sean's cum; and when it starts, the part of Sean that can still think, thinks that when Orli is asking so nicely, Sean shouldn't give so violently; but Sean's body isn't thinking, isnt' considerate or considering [...] ¹

Example 2
Dom pressed up against him felt like thunder trapped in skin, thunder, which made him think of lightning, because thunder was just the sound lightning made when it arced through the sky, displacing air and moisture, discharging energy. And it all seemed so appropriate, Dom-thunder and Billy-lightning, because he knew he could be lightning for Dominic. He knew he could. ²

There was often something rather lyrical about lotrips fic, an experimentation with words and syntax, an interesting playing around with repetition, alliteration and metaphor: The 'stand'/'standing' wordplay in example 1, and the thunder-and-lightning in example 2. There was also a crawling into the minutiae of sex, the use of sex to work out nuances of character and relationship (eyebrowofdoom did this a lot, and ukcalico, just to cite two that come to mind, but a lot of writers were doing this in lotrips).

Maybe it's only now that I've been out of lotrips that I'm coming to notice this as a peculiarity of not fanfic in general but of lotrips in particular. Maybe it was the rps nature of the fandom, (but the Nsync fics I've read don't do this to that extent), maybe it was the romance of New Zealand and the chamaeleon-like quality of the protagonists, but I tend to think it was probably the way fanon developed very early on in the game in interaction with the first slew of huggy-kissy pics and those photos of sunlight flying off the hair and skin of boys in bathing suits, holding surfboards and each others' shoulders. It also seems to have been an interesting interaction of authors with fandom; thejennabides, for example, had written in Buffy fandom before but it wasn't until lotrips that she delved into that intense experimentation with words which ended up being almost abstract.

The one thing that lotrips was never very interested in was complex plotting. I remember how surprised I was, several months into lotrips, to read pecos's unusually complexly (for lotrips) plotted fics. They reminded me of early Star Trek fics (I hadn't read much other fps at that stage!).

I think that fps is in general more weighted towards the plot bit than rps. Nsync, lotrips and, um, Wainthropp fic (where plot was more or less, um, evacuated for zaniness and, of course, deep and sophisticated characterisation, not to mention refined description of knitwear -- but I digress) are limited in their plottiness -- whoops, in my enthusiasm I just mistook Wainthropp for rps, silly me. The canon does feel so real, *weak laugh*

No, but back to my line of thought: RPS, I suppose, lends itself less to plots because the ready-made plot universe and action characteristic of the kinds of canon appropriated for fandom is absent. In lotrips, we had a bunch of actors. They didn't really do much for us to know about beyond standing around for the cameras. But in FPS, we have a diversity of professions, we have other worlds, we have shootings and deadlines and threats to world survival and emergencies and general runnings arounds. We have plot! Conceivably, there might be a less-plotful type of FPS, if, say, we appropriated Marcel Proust or Virginia Woolf rather than J.K.Rowling but the types of canon that get chosen to be fandommed tend to be of the rather plotty kind, and more often than not, revolve around a) space travel, b) fantasy, or c) cops.

Anyway, I have noticed that in HP or Stargate you tend to get this type of sentence:

Example 3
After the fourth piece of furniture was pulverized by a misdirected spell, though, McGonagall suggested that they carry out the testing outdoors as long as the good weather held out. And as there were still parts of the grounds that even the birds wouldn't fly over, this meant that Harry and Malfoy had to spend several days together squinting to disarm mines that barely showed up in the sunlight [...] ³

Example 4
They took a break for a late lunch, having made some very interesting progress. The funny thing was, now that Rodney had a metaphysical rationale for absurdity, a whole lot of Ancient technology started making sense. The tooth fairy was causing problems, but once they posited an infinite number of massively multidimensional realities, and that minds were subject to the laws of the reality they believed in, unless the realities interacted under force of sentient will, the rest was fairly straightforward.

The hard part was the math, which Rodney was having to do by hand. [...] ⁴

The comparison is perhaps slightly skewed because both of these fps fics also have plenty of sex (although, interestingly, I would estimate that the overall percentage of sex-per-fic is much higher in lotrips than in fps fics I've read), so it may be a little unfair to compare lotrips sex sentences with fps non-sex sentences. The point is that such non-sex plot-type sentences are very common in the fps I've read but they are almost non-existent in lotrips. And perhaps even the sex, at the level of syntax, rhythm and word choice, is different in fps from the way it is in lotrips. That would be another post, then. Huh. But as a quick note my impression is that fps (the ones I've read) deals more in complete sentences, even in sex, than lotrips which liked to veer towards the allusive and elusive, the run-on sentence, the sentence fragment.

It's not that one is better or hotter than the other. It is true that my emotions were more engaged and cathected in lotrips but my fic-appreciation goes across the fandoms, and some of the best fics I've read come from outside of lotrips. But it is the case that they are different. And having learned to write in the one fandom, lotrips, I am having difficulties adjusting to writing (not reading) in another (HP).

The reason I found zarah5's HP fic so interesting was that here was an author I was familiar with from lotrips, doing an HP fic in what I perceived to be a 'lotrips mode'. I, myself, haven't quite managed to figure out what my new 'voice' is to be in HP. I'm not good at plotting, or at least, I feel not good or not practiced at plotting, but the lyricism feels wrong when applied to HP -- or maybe that's just the pressure of fanon exerting itself, and I am too weak to withstand it and erect my own?

Anyway, these are just some musings from somebody who thought she knew all about slashy goodness and now finds herself floundering and wandering in a much larger world than initially envisaged.



Notes
1) Example 1 is from chapter 1 of thejennabides's Happiness (More or Less).

2) Example 2 is from shaenie's Cusp.

3) Example 3 is from resonant8's Transfigurations.

4) Example 4 is from julad's Absurdity Theory.

Comments

[jayest.livejournal.com]

I've only been reading HP for a couple of months now. Interestingly, I was reading circe_tigana's Precipice not long ago, and I remember thinking that this was the most lotrips-like HP fic I'd read.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

And what made you think it was 'lotrippy'? *very interested here*

[jayest.livejournal.com]

I think towards the later days of Lotrips a lot of the more interesting fics (or fics by those authors whose work I read most often) were very "arty". And by that I mean snatched moments, much more descriptive (flowery) prose, almost poetry in a way.
Even the format of the writing was open, such as Circe's fic which I mentioned with it's 4 parts.

I even remember you commenting on the format of something that I wrote.

HP (for me) tends to describe what is going on (action based) rather then Lotrips, which in a lot of case the action takes place in in the head of the character.

Also, while there were longer fics in lotrips (such as shaenie's work), I would venture to say that they were the exception rather than the norm.
HP has so many novellas and long ongoing WIPs it's not funny.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Absolutely. You hit the nail on the head. And what fic of yours did I comment on? Were you known as jayest when I commented? Or as someone else? And it is true that the loooooong fic is not a feature of lotrips. Shaenie is very different, if you're thinking of Cusp and that whole verse, from the kinds of HP wips. Those were separate stories, all woven together into the one verse. They were not a novella or even a novel, like A.J.Hall's, for example.

I just read Circe's fic and I can see what you mean although I am now wondering whether I would have been struck by the lotrippiness if you hadn't mentioned it! I also immediately noticed the use of present tense which is a tense that was used a lot in lotrips but is relatively rare in HP.

God, I didn't think discussing this was going to be so interesting! *hops up and down*

[jayest.livejournal.com]

Shaenie is very different, if you're thinking of Cusp and that whole verse, from the kinds of HP wips.

Oh definitely. I am only just getting used to the number of wips here, and I HATE it. And suspense, gah! I hate suspense. And I'm currently working my way through lazlet's recs list and have so far avoided all the unfinished stories although I am sure I'll go back to them at some point.
In Lotrips the ones that were part of a larger universe (such as the Convergence-verse) often started as one fic and then only when well received were sequels (and prequels) written, almost all of which stood alone as well. I'm thinking of fics such as ukcalico's Sabotage, and it's follow up Subversion. I guess an in-between example would be Brenda and Jo's Claimed series, or your own Desert Prince. I wouldn't describe Claimed as a wip, although new parts appear every so often. The first couple of sections perhaps were, but now (knowing the universe) I can read each new bit without needing to remember what went on in the last chapter.
desert Prince is certainly an (abandoned?) wip, because I could see that you had a definite direction you were heading with it. However the interesting writing and descriptiveness meant that each part could be read alone.

Another thing that I've found is that even if an HP fic is rated NC-17, the NC-17 part of it will often be in the last chapter. I try to have a life every so often, so cannot always get through the first 29 chapters in one sitting, so the bonus action in the 30th chapter is often delayed.
I'm not quite sure of the point I'm trying to make by saying that, perhaps it's like very drawn out foreplay versus a quickie up against the bathroom wall (the good old lotrips standard).

I've now turned this into a discussion of fics I remember liking, and also turned everything into a sex metaphor, so I'll shutup.

Oh, and my fic was Terzetto, although I think you were more excited by the anthropod than anything else. I was posting as paladinnz back then.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

You're paladinnz!!!!!! Because lazlet keeps mentioning you and I always think, oh that's one of Laz's many people. But paladinnz!!! That not only goes way back but I also know that you're an architect and that you are / were working on something in Dubai!

*waves frantically* Lord, the trials and tribulations of username-changes. I shall never get used to them.

Now, back to your v.interesting tig! I totally agree with your view of Brenda/Jo's vampire fics; in fact, I was thinking of them and almost used them as my example. But Brenda was always good because she doesn't really do wips; she will post over a long period of time but at regular intervals, and she always knows where she is going. I never felt she was going to let me down and *not post* the ending. Unlike me, :-( I'm rather flattered that you mention the DP which is, alas, a wip but I bit that bullet, knowing that posting would be "irregular" but at least it got me writing so it was a bit selfish. It is, however, a finished fic in my head and not abandoned, just put aside while HP is eating my brain! (Which is what prompted this whole musing to begin with!) DP is based on a dream I had when I was 16 and I will never abandon it. I know the ending to the very last sentence. But, hm, I'm afraid my posting is sadly blocked. *throws self on floor to beg forgiveness*

And you are also right about the prequel / sequel thing! Also, been there and done that! It's funny that practices which I regarded as completely the norm for fandom were, actually, kind of distinctive of lotrips.

I am also very with you on the delayed-sex wip bit. 29 chapters and then bingo. Not that I don't love me a bit of unresolved sexual tension but in lotrips, perhaps because of the prevalence of the buddie-fucking model, there was often a lot of sex and then the tension revolved around the confession of love. So that you got all the sex along the way but all the deliciousness of unspoken secrets as well. Also, lotrips was a lot less angsty than HP. And part of the angstiness in HP results in people not having sex because they're just too angsted or fucked up. Lotrips characters were not fucked up. It goes with the rps, I think. I know that I myself always shied away from fucking them up too much; it was somehow disrespectful. And also too non-canon. While, of course, in HP 'tis all too canon.

*rambles self into oblivion*

[jayest.livejournal.com]

Speaking personally, the 29 chapters and then bingo thing doesn't always work for me. Last night I was reading something long that was recced to me and I got so bored (the writing was good, but not much was actually happening) that I skipped to the last chapter to see if anything did happen. At least JKR keeps things interesting, even if she does write [...] several times a sentence. I find a lot of the things I am recced in the HP fandom actually bore me, I don't know if that's because I'm kind-of new to the fandom. And sometimes gratification can be too delayed.

Also, you don't know how flattered I am that you remember me. *inferiority complex* Yes, still with the architecture, no more with Dubai, now on a London project.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

the 29 chapters and then bingo thing doesn't always work for me.
For me, it depends on how bingo the bingo is. If it's out-of-the-hat bingo, then meh. If it's been eked out to almost painful but pleasurably exciting degree, then it can be very satisfying. For me, the redeeming factor of slash is actually that I know there is going to be a bingo. It's what makes it all worth while. So when there is no bingo, I feel cheated. This happened to me recently when I read a long fic in a fandom I'd never heard of (Blake's Seven), and it was febulous, and full of embarrassed delicious moments and teh hotness and loads of graphic sex -- but at the end they don't confess their love to each other, and for me that is the bingo I need, not necessarily the sex.

[phineasjones.livejournal.com]

i think your point about more plot in fps is right on. and i think hp fps (the fandom i know best) often suffers from because of that. many multi-chapter hp fics seem caught between canon-based plot and romance/sexual plot. some, like res's transfigurations, manage a lovely balance. and some die trying.

however, hp fandom is huge. i think it's likely that if you went looking, you would find far more (by numbers) lyrically written sex scenes in hp than there ever were in lotrips - just because of the incredible amount of hp fic out there. i've read zarah's hp too and it didn't strike me as particularly lotrips-y. but i know a bunch of authors who have moved from lotrips to hp - or continue to write for both - who have fairly consistent voices (hackthis comes to mind).

i guess i tend to get a bit riled up when i come across any generalization of hp fic. there's just too much of it for that. and i read a lot of sirius/remus myself, which is almost a subgenre, i would say, because it has its own fanon and its own legendary fics and there are plenty of people in hp fandom who don't read it at all. and there's some amazing writing in it. as in so many other pairings that have become their own worlds.

i have often thought that lotrips led to some incredibly creative writing - deep exploration (creation, really) of chracter and poetic expression. but some lotrips writers have brought that with them into other fandoms and some people who are inclined to write that way and delve that deeply are doing so in hp or in whatever their fandom may be.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Your point is taken. I can by no means give anything approaching a scientific analysis of HP fandom, as maybe cathexysare differences between fandoms. Both my own experience and logic tell me this. Some writers gravitate towards some fandoms rather than others, and there is a reason for that. E.g. more lotrips authors have migrated into HP, I would hazard, than into, say, The Sentinel (and it would be interesting to follow the reasons for that; my reasons were, besides reading Resonant's Transfigurations: size of fandom [lotrips was so huge and HP was even huger], the variety of pairings on offer [lotrips had a cast of thousands, if you included the cast and crew, which I did, and HP had that as well]).

So I think that it is true to say that HP is very varied but it is also true that there are distinct characteristics about each fandom. And I am just trying to tease some of them out here, some of the ones that strike me in particular. And perhaps it is not a case of total exclusivity but of one fandom being more slanted in one direction than in another. So it's not only about absolute numbers but about percentages.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Your point is taken. I can by no means give anything approaching a scientific analysis of HP fandom, as maybe cathexysare differences between fandoms. Both my own experience and logic tell me this.

Whoops, half my reply went missing there somewhere. *wracks brain to try and remember what self said* It was something like this: I can by no means give a scientific analysis, as Cathexys could or as I could do with lotrips. I knew lotrips pretty much inside and out while I have only nibbled at HP fandom. And... oh bugger, I've forgotten the rest! There was at least a whole paragraph of genius-like thought in there!!

[mandalaya.livejournal.com]

RPS, I suppose, lends itself less to plots because the ready-made plot universe and action characteristic of the kinds of canon appropriated for fandom is absent.

I think you're right on here. Also, I think most of us in the lotrips fandom weren't looking for an extension of some particular plot, we were looking for hot sex to satisfy the tingles we got when we looked at photos of the actors together. There are only so many times someone can write or read, essentially, "and then they fucked and it was mind-blowingly good." Lotrips had to get creative because we wanted more sex, and the pedestrian had already been done very early on.

HP fanfic seems to be much more about adding at least some small object to the fanon - a new spell perhaps, if not a whole new plotline - as well as getting characters nekkid together. More about substance than style than lotrips, perhaps?

Thanks for an interesting post!

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

most of us in the lotrips fandom weren't looking for an extension of some particular plot, we were looking for hot sex to satisfy the tingles we got when we looked at photos of the actors together. There are only so many times someone can write or read, essentially, "and then they fucked and it was mind-blowingly good." Lotrips had to get creative because we wanted more sex,

This is absolutely true! It was all about the visual. FPS fandoms, strangely, tend to privilege the visual much less, even in cases where they're not dealing with a book but have entire movie or televisual canons to go with -- but they tend to pore much less over pics and download them and there is simply much less *drooling* going on. They will sometimes make more pics themselves, draw pics of Hermione et cetera, but it's different. What this also means is that there is more emphasis on what people do rather than what they look like. FPS people will actually have jobs and lives!! While lotrips actors only ever had longings and thoughts; their activities consisted almost entirely of drinking beer, rolling around in mud on various vaguely defined 'sets', and shagging.

HP fanfic seems to be much more about adding at least some small object to the fanon - a new spell perhaps, if not a whole new plotline - as well as getting characters nekkid together.
Absolutely! And this is an element totally missing from lotrips. Utterly. And not just because of the magic, heh, but mostly people were not very interested in adding any insight about acting or making special effects or whatever. It was all about using those settings and twisting them into sexy or sex-inducing plot motors.

[badgermonkey.livejournal.com]

I suppose if you're writing in a fictional universe you feel compelled to continue or at least slot into the narrative in some way - even Wainthropp fic uses elements of canon (!).

In RPS there is no story arc or narrative and that's what helped make people feel free to devise their own; from the point we were writing from there were a multitude of divergent routes to take. Now you can say that's true of FPS too but it's hard not to feel in some way constrained by the existing plot.

Narrative is a hard habit to break!

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

But in a way, you could think, that rps would predispose people to more plot, not less, because it's all up for grabs. But that is not what happened. Except towards the end when AUs were starting to proliferate -- but an AU is half-way to fps!

Wainthropp fandom was, of course, way ahead of its time, place and whatever other dimensions in its avant-garde, cutting-edge subversion, diversion and occlusion of narrative, hot plot, hot pot and politician cross-over.

The disturbing thing is I am actually finding it hard to think of Wainthropp fanon as non-canon.

[badgermonkey.livejournal.com]

But it's hard to wrest a plot from the realms of plotlessness. It always was about the 'characters' so everything ends up a sort of character study. Also I do think the real people aspect makes a difference because there's this sort of awareness that your own attempt to shape things will be inconsequential - it's not as if writing Dom/Billy fics means that it's going to happen, so why waste your time creating something that isn't going to be real. Whereas if you write Mr Wainthropp/Geoffrey, it has happened because you made it happen. What was real about lotrips was the feelings, the emotions, not to the extent they were portrayed in fic but there always was that real tenderness and friendship among the cast that was impossible to miss.

Also I think the close-knit nature of early lotrips fandom has a lot to do with the fics. Because although everyone wasn't shagging everyone else (unless I just wasn't invited), there was a real sense of audience and of being among friends and I think that also fed into the intimacy and willingness to experiment.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

But it's hard to wrest a plot from the realms of plotlessness.
Yes, and I like that formulation a lot! The plotlessness of lotrips. Lotriplotless (*sprains tongue*). Lotrips was fairly plotless. It had a setting so in a way it had a 'universe' or 'story world' but we just used it as background, we didn't ever really do anything with it. Even WETA bigatures were just there to serve as convenient shag tunnels. We didn't have them invent any new plastic substances or suchlike. Also, the profession of actor (unlike, say, the professions of boarding school teacher or space-travelling physicist) does not lend itself to a lot of action-driven plot stuff. Actors are empty vessels for characters, so we poured characters into them. But what do actors do? Besides stand around waiting for lighting to be rigged, sit around in mechanical trees, stand around some more at premieres, and mimic other people's lines. Oh, and shag. In the mud.

I can't believe how nostalgic you, too, are waxing about lotrips and the real tenderness and emotion!!! I am wondering to what extent the canon fed into the fanon, that is, to what extent lotrips was also different from other rps fandoms, like all the pop-slashers. Because we had all those pics to ogle!! Those guys were constantly snogging each other!

[badgermonkey.livejournal.com]

Its avant-garde, cutting-edge subversion, diversion and occlusion of narrative, hot plot, hot pot and politician cross-over.

I just read this properly, and, hah!

[ukcalico.livejournal.com]

Hey, I *always* use sex to work out nuances! Whoever's doing it. :P

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

And so you do. You are, in fact, my prime example for this practice. And the reason I didn't quote you was precisely that you, um, don't really fit into the pattern I was trying to describe. Because you wrote lotrips and you've written HP and you've written the whole caboodle, really.

But (ha, there's always a but) I do think of you more as a lotrippy kind of writer. Now I don't know whether this is because that's how I first encountered you, or whether that is because you are well-versed in the rps thing and have perhaps an affinity that I can sense, or whether it is that your HP fics are certainly less plot-riddled than many of the other HP fics I've read, are.

[damned-colonial.livejournal.com]

[ links are mix of stuff I've read lately or stuff I've written... chosen largely because they demonstrate what I'm describing, no particular implications of quality. ]

I had very similar thoughts to this when I first started reading Due South slash, after coming into slash via historical fandoms (Master and Commander, Hornblower, rare lit slash).

I noticed it the difference in "voice", especially that Due South had a far greater tendency towards first person, or third person so tight it was basically first with switched pronouns (http://www.livejournal.com/community/ds_flashfiction/353330.html), or alternating third with very distinctive voices (http://hos.slashcity.com/tc.htm) (that last link is the first DS fic I ever read, and the voice change actually threw me and made me go "huh" and "whoa" a bit). Whereas in the historical fandoms you tend to get a more generic third, or somewhat omni, and if anyone goes for distinctive voice it's more often mimicking the author of the original work (http://scriptorium.infotrope.net/fiction/bachelors.mhtml) (eg Jane Austen or Patrick O'Brian (http://scriptorium.infotrope.net/fiction/antipodes.mhtml)) than the thought/speech patterns of the characters.

I also noticed the difference in narrative structure. My historical fandoms, or at least the stories I read and like, tend to have fairly linear plots. The occasional flashback (http://versaphile.com/anais/full_fathom_five.htm), sure, but mostly starting at the start and working through to the end. In Due South you find things like stories that work backwards from the end to the start (http://www.livejournal.com/users/pearl_o/534752.html), or where subplots are explored (http://trickster.org/res/hydra.html) in flashbacks to earlier points in the characters' history (http://trickster.org/speranza/Mangy.html). Another couple of interesting structures: parallel first-person POVs next to each other on the page (http://trickster.org/speranza/Scrabble.html), snapshots (http://dira.ficlaundering.com/ds/exposures.html). AUs and crackfic are also far more common than in historical fandoms (though I love historical crackfic, I really do.)

I think a lot of the narrative structure stuff is what drove me (I can't speak for my co-writer) to do some of the things I've done in our All the King's Men (http://scriptorium.infotrope.net/fiction/series.mhtml?s=atkm) universe, so I guess that's an example of writing styles from one fandom coming over into another. Something I've noticed going the other way is someone I know from DS fandom writing an atypical Hornblower story (http://neonnights.illuminatedtext.com/horatio/comeunto.html) both in its voice and its subject matter.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

This thing about the first-person and so forth is very interesting to me. It sort of gets at the nitty gritty of fandom and whether there can be differences discerned at a micro-level such as voice. I am very interested also in what you say about the omni pov because in my experience there is very, very little fanfic written in that pov and it's a pov that I admire and find very hard to do myself. I used to think it was some sort of slashy resistance to omni but maybe, as you say, it depends on the fandom and I just haven't been reading any omni fandoms.

[damned-colonial.livejournal.com]

I don't think there are "omni fandoms" but I think historical, and especially literary, fandoms lend themselves to it. Something about writing, say, the 19th century... it can make you write like a 19th century author.

Again, I'm lacking in examples, but here are a couple of things *I've* written that have that feel:

Part of a Due South WIP, an AU set in the Regency era:

It is a fact universally acknowledged that a single man in possession of
a good fortune must be in want of a wife. Josiah Thatcher, at the age
of forty, held substantial stock in the Company of Adventurers, as well
as owning two mills and a Cornish tin-mine, and thus by simple deduction
it can be easily understood that he desired to wed. And wed he had --
some eight years past -- to Miss Margaret Jessop, a single woman of only
moderate fortune, whose pert manner and independent spirit had failed to
attract the devotion of any of society's more eligible bachelors, and
who at the advanced age of twenty-six had been considered beyond
redemption by her well-meaning aunts. Miss Jessop, however, had come to
see the advantages of a less eligible match; and so as the wife of the
unassuming Mr Thatcher she hand found ample scope for her talents in
managing his house, his staff, and as much of his business as she could
get away with.

Obviously the Austen shout-out in the opening there automatically throws it into her style of writing.

From one of my M&C fics:

The clear summer sky over the port of Valletta was just starting to darken as two men climbed the narrow streets to their evening's engagement. One was both tall and large, filling and almost overflowing his blue gold-laced coat and pale breeches; his hair, seen under the hat which he wore athwart after the old fashion, was blonde and braided into a clubbed pigtail. The other man was smaller and darker in both features and attire; he wore an old and slightly battered coat, but had at least taken some care with his frilled shirt and neckcloth. Behind this ill-matched pair trailed a handful of men, two in sailors' colourful shoregoing rig and beribboned sennit hats, and two boys in civilian attire carrying musical instruments. The smaller boy skipped along easily with a fiddle in his hand, but the other's steps were belaboured by the bulk of the 'cello he held in his arms.

Interestingly, the fic I just quoted from is PGish, and no more than a kiss occurs, and for some reason I specifically chose to use zoom out when writing it:

Had anybody looked up at the open window, they would have seen two men, one large and fair, the other small and dark, in close engagement in the clear morning light. They were not a beautiful pair, and by no means graceful in their embrace, but no-one could have doubted the pleasure they took in each other.

(continued in next comment due to length limits)

[damned-colonial.livejournal.com]

A few more examples of omni-ish stuff in historical fandoms culled from my LJ memories...

Hugh Davenant was a conscientious man. Though not as leaden and pompous about the matter as his brother, Lord Colehatch, he took the burdens and responsibilities of his rank seriously, and made sure, at all times, that his tenants and his servants and their families - anyone who served him, and looked to him for their livelihood and care - had no reason to do other than bless his name. He was conscious of the privilege he'd been born into, and felt that the least he owed them, these people who saw so assiduously to his daily needs and comforts, was a pleasant demeanour, polite thanks and a warm smile for their trouble. (Untitled Heyerslash (http://www.livejournal.com/users/alais/42763.html) by alais.

He took himself away from all wars to reside in an English sea-side town, having some vague thought that the salt air would be healthful, and spent his days sitting in the parlour of the house he had taken, glaring in miserable fury at the world. His doctor pushed at him to take exercise which he did but reluctantly, hating how he limped and leaned on his cane and feeling that people stared at him in the street. The only benefit the town truly had was, as he savagely told himself, that he was a stranger to its inhabitants. His especial opprobrium was reserved for the vicar of the nearest church, who was much given to long and incomprehensible sermons half in Greek and featuring the battle rage of Achilles. 'Why, if I had such a bad officer in my regiment I would be ashamed,' thought Banner, who had long since forgotten most of his childhood lessons in Greek and Latin, and reserved only the thought that officers should leave squabbling over girls to the ranks. (Expressing Egrets (http://www.livejournal.com/users/daegaer/214140.html), a "Fenndom" fic by daegaer)

Note that I did have to go searching a bit to find these... not all historical fanfic is omni. But it was only a five minute search, and I am fairly certain I could've found you another half dozen examples at least if I'd continued it.

For more mainstream examples of modern fiction that goes omni by mimicking 19th century writing styles, "Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrel", and Stephen Brust's Paarfi series (i.e. "The Phoenix Guards" and its sequels).

[saturnalia.livejournal.com]

Cool post- I don't have anything useful to contribute, but thanks for the interesting reading! :)

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the thanks! *g*

[ranalore.livejournal.com]

What you describe as the "lotrips style" sounds very similar to what I refer to in my head as the "Smallville style," since that's where I first encountered it. I do think certain fannish sources encourage more of certain types of stories, but I also think a congregation of authors who share a similar style can influence what is later regarded as the "house style" of a fandom, or at least a portion of a fandom. And, of course, there's the question of which style is most popular across a fandom. I've seen a fair number of HP (mostly Remus/Sirius) stories written in the "lotrips style," but it does seem true that stories with more externally-driven plots (and also with more of an emphasis on the younger generation) seem more widely read and recognized.

Very cool discussion topic!

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Smallville, aha! And I think your point about cross-fandom styles is really interesting. I suppose that would get at the what-is-unique-to-slash question. Though at the moment I'm rather fascinated by the many styles that slash can fracture into from fandom to fandom. Yes, and Remus/Sirius has sometimes struck me as the Bean/Viggo of HP, *g*.

[cathexys.livejournal.com]

i do think there may be differences in voices, but i'm always wondering whether we have similar samples in the various fandoms. i've commented, for example, that i've encountered more disability fic in TS than anywhere else and more hard core torture in XF, but that might simply be b/c i read a lot of hard core torture when i was in XF and that i read through the entire 852 Prospect and caught *every* (good and bad) story ever written in that fandom :-)

I'm not sure your RPS vs FPS argument actually translates to popslash, for example. In fact, if you wanted to compare why not read julad's FPS against her RPS? and even then you'd have the problem of authors changing over time. so, how about reading her before and after RPS against her RPS...

or looking at a variety of RPS writers who're also writing FPS...i've often felt that some of the best work of a variety of writers was done in popslash, but I do not think that it's about lack or existence of world building and plot.

i pretty much could go to pornish pixies and pick examples similar to your first two and go to last year's sesa and find two long&plotty popslash fics...


and even when we compare fandoms i do wonder whether there is not a change in style over time, i.e., when i notice certain tropes and stylistic issues in Pro, i'd probably attribute that more to the time of writing of the fics than to anything particular to the fandom [book fandoms being an exception, b/c of the above addressed "author voice" issue]

another thought: i've always believed that certain writers can influence fandoms, i.e., if you have some early writers that privilege a certain style, it can become as copied as their favorite interpretations and tropes. plus, as i started out saying, what circle are you reading in? if i'd not consciously looked for the more traditional gay romance type boyband fic, going just from my flist and the central lj announcement community, i'd have thought all popslash was postmodern and "cold prickly" to the nth degree....

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

*laughs* I can never match you for examples or analytical rigour, and I'm not even going to try because I don't want to read early vs late Julad or fps vs rps Julad, I leave that very happily to your own able self! *g* This is why I said I am basing this post only upon my own experience because, alas, I do not want to make my life in fandom too much like my life in academe. :-)

Otoh, enough people seem to have had similar experiences for me to believe that there's something valid in my limited viewpoint. In lotrips I was not limited, I really did read from left to right and up to down but I'm not interested in getting to know any other fandom in such depth and detail (hence the note of nostalgia that keeps creeping in when I talk of lotrips). So I can't base my musings at all on anything approaching quantitative analysis. Also, heh, I don't even know what half your acronyms stand for (my usual problem!).

Actually, er, I've never read any Julad popslash although I scooted on over to her website to find fics but they all seemed to be fps. :-( Am I missing something febulous here??

And then I do know some writers who've crossed over from lotrips to do other stuff. I mean, nearly every lotrips author at one point or another tried her hand at lotr fps, it was sort of the inevitable fps of choice that one could fall into. I did it myself and found it quite liberating because one thing missing from all rps (in my experience, ack, you'll cite a zillion counter-examples now!) is evil. People are too respectful of the boys they adore to make them evil, and when it's done it's unconvincing and too ooc. While fps abounds in evil, it's lovely! It's what I like about writing my HP opus at the moment, and what I liked about doing the Desert Prince lotrips AU: it allowed me to explore evil in detail.

[cathexys.livejournal.com]

no, i actually agree about the evil. i also wonder whether *we* are more inhibited in rps, b/c they *are* closer to real people than the fictional characters are.

i totally believe tyou about lotrips...just wanted to point out that other rps need not function the same way.

i think it might make more sense to make fandom comments than rps/fps ones if that makes sense...

and i do agree that rps seems to allow for some freedom in style etc than many fps (esp. book fandoms) don't have...thus the multitude of postmodern stuff in poplash, i'd argue...

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

I think we absolutely are more inhibited because they are real people in rps. From lotrips, I know this from various discussions and from my own misgivings. I mean, some people (not me) went out of their way to meet these actors at various cons and premieres; how can you make someone evil once you've drooled over them at an autograph session?? Also, evil actors? Bwuahahahha. Evil wizards? Yup. Evil dark lords? Oh sure, yup. But evil luvvies? *chortles*

But what other rps is there besides lotrips? It's popslash and then a sprinkling of politican et al. slash which, as far as I can tell, is mostly humorous / crack.

I'm glad you think that there are fandom differences, then. I think there are. My experience tells me there are. My writing tells me there are.

As Demelza said above, in rps there ain't no plot so how are you going to make plot out of plotlessness? So you diversify into interiority and stylistic experiments and nuanced character exploration and repetition of words and metaphor and dialogue.

I wonder if all rps fandoms end up in AU. I certainly got frustrated at one point with endlessly repeating the acting life. I wanted something new from my boys!

[cathexys.livejournal.com]

there's other forms of bandslash like metallica, duran, duran and more recently good charlotte, etc. there's wrestling slash. there's all kinds of actor slash (damon/affleck?)

there's show connecteced actor slash, esp. in het (XF, BtVS, ...)

Did you read my manifesto thingy???

My question still is whether not ll slash has a tendency to go interior...i mean, we often use the plot to get them somehow together, but much of slash is interior in fps or rps (though i'm reading XF right now, where the gen aspect is pretty huge and even slash fic at times has huge gen components...)

[profshallowness.livejournal.com]

Here belatedly via metafandom. Very interesting discussion, and I think that within the limits that you've set (the issues of HP fandom's size defying generalisation, writers' styles progressing) the points that you make about the why behind specific modes are probably right. However I think that individual style (as influenced by the entire fandom or the part of fandom the writer interacts with as a reader and as a wider contributor) will win through. This is speaking as someone who I'm sure my betas would describe as a sentence abuser, who writes fpf and finds plot difficult.

You ask I, myself, haven't quite managed to figure out what my new 'voice' is to be in HP. I'm not good at plotting, or at least, I feel not good or not practiced at plotting, but the lyricism feels wrong when applied to HP -- or maybe that's just the pressure of fanon exerting itself, and I am too weak to withstand it and erect my own?

I suppose it depends on whether writing in a certain 'mode' works for your voice or not. Though I'm possibly underestimating the social effect of fanwriting here.