men together

[lobelia321]

I've not been particularly interested in Glastonbury before but this year I've found myself watching quite a bit of the BBC coverage; and I've been finding it quite compelling.

Now, men in bands. I was watching Coldplay (and I do like Coldplay -- I discovered them thanks to you, fellow lj_peeps, *g*) and there was whatever his name is, Mister Main Singer of the Band, introducing the guitarist: "And this is Mr Jonathan Buckland, my best friend and the best guitar player in the world."

Now, do women say such things? But men say these things all the time, and I love it! Mister Jonathan Buckland (when do women introduce each other as Ms? We just don't do that), my best friend -- the sweetness of it! The lovely homosociality! Nobody forced these men to form a band; they were just a student band; men just do these things. Men just like hanging out together and doing stuff together with their best friends. T'h has a theory about this, he thinks it's a masculine thing, this ability to form groups and bonds and bands, and the tendency for men to stick up for each other in institutional settings, form Old Boy networks and so forth. I tend to agree.

Now why do they do this? The other side of the coin is the dreadful rivalry and hierarchy that men experience in patriarchy, where everyone wants to be top dog and alpha male and elbows the others out of the way on their way to the top and whips out his penis to see how much longer it is than his rivals' and how many more balls he's got. This happens a lot in academe and everywhere else, not least in politics! So maybe the men who form bands with their best friends are forming little protective groups within this larger climate of patriarchal rivalry.

And why do we women slasher love them so? This goes beyond two guys having sex. We love the homosociality of this group thing. We love the 'This is Mr Jonathan Buckland, my best friend and the best guitar player in the world'. We love these declarations of love and the displays of public affection, of touching and hugging and kissing among mates. This is why we were all drawn to lotrips, I'm sure of it. It wasn't the Viggorli or the Domlijah primarily, or not for me, anyway, and not for many, many others, judging by the many orgy fics I used to read in lotrips. In lotrips it was so difficult to pull out 'the one OTP': impossible. Lotrips was very different from fandoms such as Smallville or Star Trek where you get One Pairing done over and over. Lotrips was never, ever about the One Pairing but always about the men bonding. I remember reading fics where basically every single man on set was having it off with every single other man on set, where people drifted from one pairing into another. These driftings could be easy-going orgies with a smile or they could be angst-ridden fests of jealousy but it was as if the authors (us!!) just needed to try out more than just one pairing possibility in that amazing setting of homosociality. I remember how electrifying those first photos were, of group hugs and everyone cuddling up to everyone else!

We women don't do this. Not in this way. And we love the way sexuality is woven into these men-to-men relationships. I'm not sure it's envy we feel; I don't think I feel envy -- hm, perhaps a little bit, actually, *g*. But we love to observe it and think about it and write and read our way into it. It's this thing that really exists irl, and we are excluded from it, so we spin it further within our own homosocial online communities.

We have our own woman-only homosocial communites, we do, but they work differently from the men's. I haven't yet thought through exactly how.

Anyway, here's to misters being best friends.


(His name is Chris Martin, it appears.*g*)

Comments

[travelingcarrot.livejournal.com]

I completely see what you mean, and yes, the Glastonbury coverage (what I have seen of it, having been on OU weekend) has been excellent. But I've never been jealous of men's social groupings. To me it seems that the positive, warm stuff you talk about is the exception and that's why we respond strongly to it when we see it. LOTRIPS is a response to the exceptionalness of what we all saw amongst that group. In general, men's friendship groups are characterised by a complete lack of expression of affection whether verbally or physically. IRL I'll go with my girly hugs any day!
Now, back Basement Jaxx on the pyramind stage...

[cathexys.livejournal.com]

and i'd argue that the only place i've ever seen it for women has been right here...

[cathexys.livejournal.com]

make that: personally experienced. i know it exists, but after 9 years of all girls scholl and almost that long in science uni departmnts i neverexperienced the femle cameraderie...

[brightest-blue.livejournal.com]

Oh, this is interesting. Partly because years ago, when Mrs. Chris Martin- then Gwyneth Paltrow- won the Oscar for Best Actress in that awful pink dress, one of the people she thanked was her "very best friend, Mary ------",who was also her date to the event (she must have been between Brads and Bens). And I remember thinking "how sweet!" as a pretty brunette blushed and squirmed in the front row.

I think it's partly because we see it so seldom in RL, it's lovely to see men really bond as a group. In banking, I saw plenty of men be drinking buddies after work, or playing golf on sunny afternoons, but if it came to competing for a deal, one never hesitated to drive the other into the ground if it came to that. That's why yes, LOTR was so refreshing for most of us.

Sure, women have their own groupings, because on our own, there's plenty of competition as well, and within the groups, too. But it seems the dynamics are very different from the way men behave in groups. I look forward to your further thoughts on this!

[sheldrake.livejournal.com]

Great post!

This has been a fly-by commmenting.

[msilverstar]

Interesting thoughts. Though I suspect that within the groups, there's a certain amount of rivalry until they get the pecking order cleared up. Or at least the roles (lead guitar, bass, drums, etc.).

[giglet.livejournal.com]

We women don't do this. Not in this way.

Either I misunderstand your point, or I disagree with it.

Men just like hanging out together and doing stuff together with their best friends. T'h has a theory about this, he thinks it's a masculine thing, this ability to form groups and bonds and bands, and the tendency for men to stick up for each other in institutional settings, form Old Boy networks and so forth.

You don't see women doing these things? I see women doing these things, I do these things. I'm in a performing group with my best friends at the moment (and we rock, very much) -- all women. The Old Girl network is part of my life (as is the multigendered Old Geek network). I enjoy the chance to get naked in a sauna with my friends even though I'm never going to have sex with any of them. I just got one friend a job. A group of my slash buddies (again, all women) has regular meetings where we hang out all day, eat good food and objectify men and some women and talk about all the stories we haven't written and laugh a lot.

So how is what I'm doing different from what you're describing men doing?

[the-oscar-cat.livejournal.com]

my 2p agree and adding to giglet's point.

i don't think it's that we don't do - it's just that we love seeing guys do it.

that hanging out, and being creative and eatting and objectifying - i know lobelia does that because i've been to the same meet ups at lazlet's as her.

i think when it comes down to it, most male and female friends have the same basis. some friendships and honest and loving and last pretty much forever. (W my bf has had the same best friend since he was 13. they are incredibly cute together, and it's nothing to do with sex - just love. you know?)

other friendships are just useful but end or are damaged when something else better (a promotion, a deal, a new partner) comes along.

other friendships are tempestuous and probably unhealthy - there are plenty of those friendships, male and female in rock (the ramones, the spice girls - *smirk* - ok that's a weird list)

i think fandom notices these things and praise loving male relationships precisely because they are friendships we can understand from first hand experience.

that it's not hard to then let the mind skip happily toward sex, is no different than the guy fantasy of that cute girl and her best friend, whispering in each other's ear in the nightclub (or whatever) being one step away from having wild girl sex, (preferably in his room, while he watches...)

[tvillingar.livejournal.com]

I have a feeling that when a woman introduces someone as her best friend, that friend really BETTER be the best friend or there will be social repercussions. What I mean is that women don't call their (girl) friends "best" casually. Of course, this is only my experience on the subject. Women and girls seem to have this really really subtle pecking order within their group where everyone knows their place and makes sure the others stay in their place.