lobelia321: (oxford)
[personal profile] lobelia321
Whatever happened to my writing? It is something that puzzles me.

Today I leafed through my ringbinder of posted fics. It contains about 35 fics, and another 15 or so lurk on my hard drive, never printed out. That makes about 50 fics in total, some short snippets typed out in a burst of fun, others long and wrenched out of me by my heart's blood.

The last real fic I posted (except for one Dementor sniplet) was in June 2003. 90 per cent of my fics were written between Feb. 2002 and Jan. 2003. So I wrote about 45 stories in one year, and then what? A trickle in 2003, and nothing in 2004, and 2005? Hahaha! Zilchy-poo.

What happened? I am still obsessed but I'm not posting any longer. I've not kept my hand in. I haven't even posted crap. Now and again I've dusted off old things and shined them up a bit but that's a bit of a desperate measure, after all.

I'm working in my mind on my long, long things. Long, long thing number one that ate my brain 1 1/2 years ago: D/D fic in HP fandom. I actually typed up a bit of it three days ago but mostly I'm writing it in my head and that's no good. That's fantasy. That's not fic.

Long, long thing number two: languishing on hold as I am embroiled in D/D but lurches to the surface at times (Desert Prince).

Oh, and not to forget the never-finished boring!Orli. Just two more episodes to go and why can't I write them? It used to take me 15 minutes max per episode.



1. End of fandom. Lotrips dissipating. People who formerly wrote fic and drooled right alongside me drifting off, and me drifting off as well. Hence: endless fb and excitement-loop lost as source of spur to writing.

2. Dealing with personal shit. Partly I wrote fic to a) deal with the personal shit and b) run away from having to face the existence of the personal shit. The personal shit is now more or less dealt with. I have made amazing strides. And this is why I need to escape less into fic.

3. Instead, I am writing my rl book again. Which is unqualifiedly a good thing but it does take time and energy away from fic.

4. Long, long fic presenting difficulties which I find hard to surmount. Harder than short fic. And eating my brain so I'm unable to keep two things cooking at once. I used to be able to but now I'm not. I can't seem to bash out a short thing while the long long fic is lodged at the forefront of my feverish imagination.

5. Crossing over from rps to fps. I worked out a mode of rps writing that suited me very well. It involved snatching snippets of canon from people's posts and news items, and mostly it involved selecting pics and gazing at them and making up stories from the pics. Also, it involved inventing personalities for the very rare and the very weird. This can be done from one photo alone. I really enjoyed doing that and I got quite good at it.

HP has no canonical pics like that.

Also, and this is really
5b. Less than 150 per cent commitment to HP canon. This makes the writing more of a reliance on origfic strategies, and they scare me. Even when writing Lotr fps, I found it very comforting to be able to go back to canon, re-read passages and allow them to inspire me. My knowledge of HP canon is shaky and this takes away one source of fic inspiration and also fic confidence.

And no, I don't think the solution is to read the canon. Because I don't love it enough. (I did love the lotr canons, both fps and rps.) And maybe that makes me a bit frightened of the HP fandom as well. And wary of posting.

6. Expectation of self. Because it's longer it's got to be bigger and better. Because I've devoted so much heart's blood to it, it's got to be the absolute best. But it's not, of course, so I despair and don't write it. But I know that I don't want to despair and what does quality matter, anyway, it's for my own pleasure, blah blah. But then I don't have pleasure in something written under par.

So I veer and I don't write and I don't post.

7. The thing is I do care. It's not a desperate caring but I do care that I'm not posting any longer. I feel there is something missing that used to be there.

8. Balance of rl and ficlife. Fic life, it is true, did take over rl in 2003. It's tied to escaping the personal shit. I don't want to go back to that, writing until 3 am, writing in the library when I was there to do research for my rl book, sitting the children in front of the TV while I drooled upstairs on my computer. This was not good. But now the balance has over-tipped the other way and is lost again. Now there is no fic, and now I have too much real life.


Any points I have left out??

Well, that's off my chest, at any rate.

Now back to applying to this internal post I am applying for. Yeah, right, fat chance I'll get it, given the corruptness of my institution.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 11:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lovewithapathy.livejournal.com
Actually, your reasons are similar to the reasons why I stopped writing fanfic as well. It seems I've switched fandoms that I fanfic ever 2 years, but this is the first time I've continued to read in a fandom that I no longer write in. The idea of using fanfic to deal with personal shit was something I did a lot, not so much with lotrips but when I wrote popslash. With lotrips, it was more ideas I got that were inspired by and could fit into the "characters" I was using. Either way, it helped relieve issues in my life. But I definitely have found that there's a correlation between my own personal issues/angst and the quality/frequency of my writing. My life at the moment is in a relative state of contentment, and one result of that seems to have been my not writing anything new (fanfic or otherwise) since the remix project. And maybe feedback does have more to do with inspiration and motivation than I'd like to admit. By the end, I was basically writing for myself with little to no expectation of feedback. I guess that with no one else seeming interested, I was the only one driving myself and that is definitely harder to continue.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 11:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lobelia321.livejournal.com
So what kept you going when you switched fandoms? I found switching fandoms a bit traumatic, actually. I'm still not quite sure how to deal with entering a new fandom. I've never felt as committed and totally immersed as I did with lotrips with anything else.

Fb is terribly important. Every time there has been only a trickle of it, I have been disheartened.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 11:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lovewithapathy.livejournal.com
With popslash, I was writing a lot during a particularly angsty period of my life, so the need to vent creatively without exposing how personal it was, was what started up series and built my creations and kept me going. And frankly, I had become so disgusted with my first fandom that discovering a new fandom with a set of authors more experienced was a breath of fresh air. I hadn't even known what the basic rules of fanfic community etiquette were until I switched to popslash. I was lucky to have hit upon fanfic lists while they were still being productive and got a lot of encouragement for my writing. My feedback was never as good as it was when I wrote in popslash, and that was mostly through my website too.

For lotrips, it was partially that my favorite popslash authors had been making the crossover, and partially realizing that hey, Orlando Bloom is way hot and giving me ideas. :-P I definitely think that my lotrips works are a lot more fanfic-oriented than my popslash stuff. Most of my lotrips writing would be hard to convert into original fic, because I was writing based off of ideas inspired by the people I wrote about (and the books/movies I referenced). I couldn't change this to original writing as easily, because Kate's weight, Orlando's clothes, Viggo's painting, Dom's looks...they were key elements of the stories and inspired them. Also, I think that as the movies came to an end and the comraderie between the actors started to wear thin publically (especially as I wrote Orlando-fic), there was less to go on. And it could also be that my main pairing (Orlando/Kate) was no longer so ambiguous that I could "create" on a public image. Actually, this could probably go with popslash too, as around the time I was losing interest was also when the solo career rumors started popping up.

And come to think of it, the last popslash piece I wrote (and last redesign of the website) was inspired by someone I'd been dating. When that ended badly, I don't think I wrote anything in that fandom again (though I wrote some original pieces and briefly had a site of stuff for both). And when I stopped really writing much lotrips was around the time I moved to Japan. Now I don't really write anything creative, maybe because any creativity or interesting English is sucked dry by my job and I'm devoting the time I do write to journal entries and letters home.

I'd like to think that maybe a new fandom will come my way that inspires me again. But lately, what I enjoy the most are Japanese related fandoms like anime, gaming, etc., none of which are fandoms where I would trust myself to understand enough of the canon to write in. And in general, I don't like to write FP fic because I feel strange treading in someone else's creative world and being limited by those boundaries.

I guess I have to hope that something drives me to create a truly original character again.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 12:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lobelia321.livejournal.com
This is really interesting. Interesting, too, that you are a very rps fan. I can sympathise with that! I keep noticing the rps predilection pop up in me as well, much as I love fics that are fps, too. There is a definite difference between how the two types of fandom operate. In rps, the canon is so much less fixed; it is so fluent and a constantly moving target. And there is so much that is not known: the perfect entry point for fic! I sort of know how rps ticks. I find moving into anything else is immediately more origficky to me, be it AU or fps. Although what I value about fps is that you're not so restricted to the same-old, same-old plots. With lotrips, I really got bored by the endless actors-at-premieres or actors-drinking-beer scenarios. Also, I really value the existence of evil in fps. You can't really put evil into the lives of two-bit actors or pop stars but you can put it into the lives of wraith-fighting scientists or Dementor-grappling schoolkids!

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 12:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lovewithapathy.livejournal.com
Although what I value about fps is that you're not so restricted to the same-old, same-old plots. With lotrips, I really got bored by the endless actors-at-premieres or actors-drinking-beer scenarios.

Agreed though as much as I enjoy those scenarios when written well by other people, I never could write those myself most of the time. I think the reason I managed to stay in RPS so long is because I used a lot of darker and more bizarre elements in my stories, or wrote fics that were just generally more tragic. One series of stories I was proud of was a set of Britney/Justin fics I wrote inspired by Chuck Palahniuk's books and Fight Club. They were definitely fanfic in the strongest sense of the word, but they had a lot more to do with the idea that what you see in the public eye is so obviously meant to be an image. The subjects that usually drove me to write provided a lot more opportunity to assume darkness under that gleam of grins and sparkling eyes. I think that's why I gravitated to writing mostly Orlando-fics...out of all the lotrips actors, he seemed to be the most "hidden" under all that supposed stability and joy. Those redundant comments he made to every interview under the sun helped make me wonder why he sounds like he keeps his answers on a mental database. The girlfriend, all skin-n-bones while so smiley, was another interesting source. I guess that's why I liked to write that pairing so much, before they became more open about their relationship.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 05:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lobelia321.livejournal.com
The subjects that usually drove me to write provided a lot more opportunity to assume darkness under that gleam of grins and sparkling eyes.

See, I could never buy those plot premises. Unless it is AU which I ended up writing with the Desert Prince. But Karl who was often cast as evil incarnate with his flaring nostrils and S/M predilections: this was not my vision of these people. I just could never believe that there was anything under those public personae. I have a prejudice towards actors, too, I just can't help finding them shallow and what the fanfic did for me is to make everybody in lotr much cleverer and deeper than I actually believe them to be irl. And I cannot see them as dark!! (Note 'my' Orli in icon....)

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 10:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lovewithapathy.livejournal.com
I guess you probably wouldn't have liked my fics then. :) For me, I think it depends on the kind of darkness. In the manner of an alcoholic abuser or suicide case, I'm picky about what I read. But hell, I wrote lotrips fics inspired off "American Psycho." Often it was things that extend waaaaay off the reality path but still had elements of real life in it was mostly my game. Or I looked for tragedy. I don't think dark necessarily have to mean "evil." I look at tragedy or loneliness as being dark as well, and that's what I used in my stories often. Though I have to admit that what I enjoyed reading the most was stuff that I couldn't write. Stuff like the clever/deeper stuff that's just real life with good dialogue and better sex. I was terrible at anything that was just charm.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 11:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] birdgerhl.livejournal.com
hey 'belia!!!

i've not posted anything for ages either. however, i have been (fairly) busy writing for my own amusement (!). signing up to nanowrimo has proven to be a very positive thing for me - whilst there is no way i am going to hit 50,000 words (or probably not even 25,000 - i didn't get started until the second week and kind of forgot that i am away most of next week...), i have nonetheless churned out 15,000 words of unapologetically florid'n'pornographic nastiness that i have absolutely no intention of sharing with *anyone*. :)

when i decided that i'd had enough of lotrips i had to deal with the fact that i'd pretty much become hooked on the whole cycle of writing in the hope of getting good feedback, which in turn would spur me on to write more fic...it has been great to break free of this. maybe you need to give yourself permission to write something shitty too..? i am definitely going to finish my appalling nanowrimo novel, and then polish it up into something vaguely coherent, and then i'm going to sit back and read it and revel in the fact that it is mine, my precious, my own... ;)

and then maybe i'll feel up to writing something better, that i actually want other people to read.

good luck with your job app...

b.x :)

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 03:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ios-pillow-book.livejournal.com
i have nonetheless churned out 15,000 words of unapologetically florid'n'pornographic nastiness that i have absolutely no intention of sharing with *anyone*. :)

That is so not fair - to mention 15,000 words of florid'n'pornographic nastiness only to add that they're strictly private.

*pouts*

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 04:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] birdgerhl.livejournal.com
dearest io, those 15,000 words are strictly private for the simple fact that they are mostly shit.

b.x ;)

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 05:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ios-pillow-book.livejournal.com
Now this, dearest bdg, is something I refuse to believe.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 05:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lobelia321.livejournal.com
But see, wouldn't this be very therapeutic for me if you posted your shit? Then I could see, hey, there's some shit, let me post some shit in return! Hey, we could start a mutual shit support group, giving shit feedback on shit fic!

OK, *grins*, I'll write some shit if you share some shit. You can shitflock it!

Um, I appear to have no shit!icon.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 05:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] birdgerhl.livejournal.com
ah, but the post-feedback-post cycle is what we are trying to *avoid*!!!

b.x :)

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 06:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lobelia321.livejournal.com
But what about [livejournal.com profile] travellingcarrot's point that it's good to share? As in sharing the shit? (also, it is alliterative!)

Is it not selfish not to share?

I'm not sure I can live without sharing! Do you think the therapeutic exercise will work if I cheat and SHARE THE SHIT?? Or will that defeat its purpose?

Also, what exactly is its purpose?

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 06:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lobelia321.livejournal.com
The bad username is [livejournal.com profile] travelingcarrot. Duh.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 05:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lobelia321.livejournal.com
hey 'belia!!!

Hey, 'va! (I am resisting saying 'hey 'gerlh', I am resisting!).

maybe you need to give yourself permission to write something shitty too..?
I know I do! I know this would be good and cathartic. But I have the urgent need to post such a thing. And then I don't get feedback and then I feel bad. I used to write before LJ and fanfic, of course, just for myself but nothing was ever, ever finished. It is only fb that spurs me on to finish. Perhaps it is not so much the absence of posting that I don't like nor even the absence of fb but the absence of finishing. omg, I'm onto the crux of the matter here, thank you for making me see the light. What I feel unhappy about is FINISHING.

Should I write something shitty and just make sure I finish it? And give myself golden stars for every shit!fic that is FINISHED???

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 05:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] birdgerhl.livejournal.com
Should I write something shitty and just make sure I finish it?

yes. that's *exactly* what you should do, imho. the sense of achievement of writing something for yourself, without the possibility of feedback to spur you on, and actually finishing it - it's surprisingly huge.

i started trying to review what i was up to on a monthly basis, so i could try and finish stuff i'd begun the month before rather than having all these loose ends floating about.

b.x :)

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 06:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lobelia321.livejournal.com
So, am I understanding you rightly? What I should aim for is to write WITHOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF FEEDBACK? But I should nevertheless FINISH? Just for me? And it needs to be SHITTY?

To sum up:

* finish
* shit
* posting not allowed

Do I get a deadline? Or is it better to do this exercise without deadline? And do you promise that I will feel better for this and that it will be Good For Me?

And while I am writing and FINISHING the shit, what do I do about my long, long, long D/D fic?

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 06:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lobelia321.livejournal.com
Okay, another question. You say 'finished'. Does it matter if it's a very short finished thing? Like a page? Does that count?

Bugger, I seem to have deleted my Stepford FlyLady icon to annoy you with. Mwuahahahah! *wields dishcloth*

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 06:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] birdgerhl.livejournal.com
*cowers under the barrage of questions*

lemme make a cawfee, and i'll get back to you...

b.x :D

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 07:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lobelia321.livejournal.com
Solve all of my problems! Please!!

Ah, the burden.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 08:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] birdgerhl.livejournal.com
er, i'll have to get back to you tomorrow, birdboy on his way home and i am still in my dressing gown at 8pm! *lol*

b.x :)

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 08:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lobelia321.livejournal.com
Birdboy!! I was wondering what he was called, now that everything is no longer new and novum.

I wish I could devote my time to writing shit tonight but I have to prepare two lectures that I have been procrastinating about since Wednesday, arghhh.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-21 09:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] birdgerhl.livejournal.com
right! (she typed, sternly). yes, i think you should write something with the intention of *not* posting it. it doesn't really matter how long it is - but a drabble might be taking the piss. ;) ...it's up to you whether you try to make it something "good" or just bang it out without worrying about it being "shitty" - you could try both approaches.

as for a deadline, i have tried to finish all the stuff i have started within one month. but if i'm working on something and i can see the end in sight - if it's just a few hundred words away - i tell myself, "i'll finish it *now*, *within the hour*, even if i have to skimp on the details, i can always go back". i have also told myself that i can write whatever the hell i like for myself, no matter how dodgy or derivative or appalling, for the next twelve months, just so long as i finish *something* every month.

it seems to be working so far.

b.x :)

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-21 09:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lobelia321.livejournal.com
Interesting. I am intrigued by the finishing something every month scheme, and especially the finishing within the hour incentive. But I will have to think seriously about how this will work for my 80,000 word HP. :-( I just haven't yet found a strategy that makes me finish it, and it ain't gonna be finished in a month, I just can't see that happening. Or is that my outdated mindset? Should I just tell myself, yes, hey, finish, just hurry on through it, even if shitty and hurried? Should I do that?

I seem to be treating you as some sort of fic-writing guru...

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-21 10:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] birdgerhl.livejournal.com
Should I just tell myself, yes, hey, finish, just hurry on through it, even if shitty and hurried? Should I do that?
very probably. because once it's actually *done*, then it's a lot easier to back to it and rework it...

seem to be treating you as some sort of fic-writing guru...
*rotflmao*

well i have found a few things that work for me...at the end of the day, writing crap *must* be better than *not* writing. it must be!!!

b.x :D

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 03:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] travelingcarrot.livejournal.com
All I can say is I hope the balance tips towards you posting fic again, cos, well, I miss the hell outta it. My RL has taken over to a large extent too (not that I ever wrote much, but I used to read and comment and generally perv around the edges and now I don't even always read my best friends' stuff because I feel I can't give it enough brain space to do it justice) so I totally sympathise, but could you maybe aim to post a snippet every fortnight or something just to get you back into it? What about doing post-movie lotrips - plenty of possiblities still there?

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 05:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lobelia321.livejournal.com
You are so sweet and kind and supportive.

cos, well, I miss the hell outta it.

I was thinking about this only the other day, how maybe I should think about not posting as a selfish thing because it's not only about me, but people actually like reading fic (hell, I do!). So it's a thing to share not to hoard.

but could you maybe aim to post a snippet every fortnight or something just to get you back into it?
I like this idea, a sort of therapeutic thing. Maybe in conjunction with [livejournal.com profile] birdgerlh's suggestion that I write some shit. Fortnightly shit!snips!!

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 04:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ithiliana.livejournal.com
*pervs over icon* I joined a book club once just to get the miniscule print hard copy OED.

Love the fact it's online.

I found this post fascinating to read--I only heard about your fics fairly recently and haven't had the time to go back and read all of them--travelingcarrot rec'd everything, but especially um "Ice" (am terrible with titles), which I distinctly remember emailing you about, that was the first one, and then at one point I stumbled on an incredible John Noble, Bernard Hill and Karl Urban one that was so oral and sensory and fascinating and brilliant that I was like to die although I was probably a bad lazy reader and did not send fb. (I do better in LJ than in the email from web site fics, I don't know why).

In terms of why and how writing comes and goes--you have some great things to say here -- I'm mostly fascinated by the rps vs. fps differences you raise ('cause that's one thing that fascinates me).

I see my rps as really very close to original fic ("canon is my bitch") -- not only is the canon fluid, I can barely be bothered to "research" it because I'm having too much fun writing what I want with the casting under my complete control. I toss some stuff in as it comes to mind, but in fact, I remember the point at which I decided that doing "research" felt too weird to me (when I decided not to try to track down information on where Sean Bean lives when I started the England sequence--I suddenly felt like a "stalker" -- my personal response and limits only, no intent to make it a rule for others!).

And with fps--well I did AU from the start and now am into dark stuff--but I wrote rps before fps because of feeling intimidated by Tolkien's style (I have been reading Tolkien since 1965 with a short gap during my angry young feminist phase, snicker). But even that fear didn't last.

For me, they feel very different to write.

ALthough I have noticed the shift in fandom after the last extended dvd and as new fandoms come along. . .

Fascinating and brilliant post (I love reading writers talking about their writing, whatever aspect of it they're focused on).

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 06:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lobelia321.livejournal.com
Whee! I will take your paragraph as much-welcomed feedback! I think you mean the f/f fic where ice is put up people's vaginas?? And Olives in Brine etc.: that was my first foray into Karl. *sighs*

I totally know what you mean about stalking the real people! And the way I ended up seeing it and treating the rps was that I used the fact that they are actors. I invented a story for them and then I used them as if I had 'cast' them to play these roles. So real Dominic Monaghan was cast to play the role of 'Dom' in my fic. This is how I worked it out with my AU fic: everybody was cast as what was basically an origcharacter. I'm not sure how this works with fps. I am sort of doing this now with my HP fic; I think that is the old habit of rps! And the less-than-fanatic canon adherence.

Although if it's a canon I love I get rather pedantic. As with lotr fps.

Tolkien's style is what prevented me from entering fandom the second I discovered slash which I discovered via Least Expected and lotr fps. I thought, omg, I can never write like this, I am only a poor foreigner, English is not my mother tongue, I will just read in awe. Then I stumbled onto rps and within a day I was writing. Realism had hit me!

Hang on, I revise this! I did write a lotr fps, I couldn't resist. It was just for me, and I cringed while writing it, but the pull of slash was so strong, I can see that I had to do it!

Later on, I lost my fear of Tolkien's style. Now I actually quite like being constrained by a certain style because it makes writing easier. It folds you into a predetermined mould and that frees you up. But I only ever wrote one lotr fps, the one about Pippin/Orc.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-23 02:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ithiliana.livejournal.com
Yes! Ice, very hot, snickers, with Liv and Miranda.

And the Karl story *drools just in memory*

AND OMG! Did you write that incredible story from the Orc's point of view--carrying Pippin--bonding--then being killed? The story that I think of as a superb example of a well done point of view (since I felt a great deal of sympathy with the Orc?). I cannot even remember where/when I read that, but it's always stayed in my mind. Unique, that's what it is.

Yep, I wrote a post about "role playing slash" before I figured out what role playing meant in fandom--for just that reason. My RPS fics are sexual fantasies elaborated, with my faves cast as actors.

(English is not your first language? Well, I'd never have known! *is impressed*)

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-23 04:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lobelia321.livejournal.com
Yes, yes, that sounds like the one, The Orc's Tongue. *wallows in unexpected feedback!!*

That was my one foray into the realm of lotr rps, and it was a taste of what it's like to write evil. This is what I mean: you just can't have an experience like the writing-an-orc one if you stick too long to the pretty actors. They just don't do that whole baby-killing thing! And yes, one could do an AU but there my rps scruples did tend to kick in: I can't write Karl as a baby-killer, I just can't, I dont' find it ethical. (Not to mention that it is just too implausible for thought.) Otoh, I do find it ethical to explore evil in writing. So that's the great advantage of fps for me, boiled into a nut, heh. I know it sounds sort of weird that the difference between rps and fps is the presence of evil but it's not so odd. Maybe this is also why the one and only HP thingy I've posted so far was Dementors -- to me it is very interesting to explore the vilified and to discover what twisted them. I remember when I came upon my first Orc fic on the So Wrong orc fic website (now defunct??), and it was an eye-opener! Wow, someone did that to Tolkien's black-and-white world? And it makes sense, and it's not crack!fic??

Also, heh, if you're writing orcs you get to say 'fuck' and 'shit' while if it's elves, you're forever saying 'his wondrous member' or 'his shimmering elfhood'.

Actually, the slashiest creature in all of Middle Earth is Treebeard. I read this chapter out loud to my son and the campness of Treebeard's speech was just to scream for. (In fact, t'husband did scream, with laughter, in the background. T'son was clueless, bless him.) I mean, all that hoo hom!!!

There was a track here somewhere, right? Except I seem to have veered right off it.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-23 05:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ithiliana.livejournal.com
*nods* I know what you mean about the ethical issues of writing "evil charcaters" in rps (my friends are dealing with it in "Words/Silence/Flesh" where Harry Sinclair started as seeming the villain but (through deft development of characterization and his point of view) has become a lot more complex.

Although Shippey argues that the Orcs in LOTR do not consider themselves as evil (but as "good" in contrast to their opponents), the fact that we're never in their POV leaves it easier for many to perceive them as the simplistic villains in the work (have you read Author of the Century?).

And the story from the Orc's perspective was brilliant (reminded me of Mary Gentle's Grunts which is in effect retelling of LOTR from an orc's perspective). A whole differnt take on elves and hobbits in that, plus total hilarious commentary on war.

*giggles at elf diction*

I did sneak a bit into the fell beast's pov for a friend of mine, which is also my first het.

I get v. mystical about pov -- in that regard. Because if you're writing in a character's point of view, I agree, along with Shippey, that only in cheesy melodrama do characters go around going "oh HO I am SO evil."

It doesn't seem weird to me--the distinction of "evil" in fps and rps--though I hadn't thought of it in those terms before. I already dealt with it myself in a story, when I got carried away and started a vampire AU with the LOTR actors, I first set it in 18th century not on the film set, then realized that in effect I was writing an original fic, so I transmuted it to contemporary period (writing historical fic too hard), changed their names, and just kept a few physical details that were ahem very appealing. And shifted to writing from split pov.

A fascinating experience.

I read "The Orc's Tongue" before I even "met" you, I think, but dang, should have put it together--your writing is so lovely and sensual and sensory and evocative--really puts me *in* the world in an amazing way.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 05:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ios-pillow-book.livejournal.com
Whatever happened to my writing?

Hey, you're writing your rl book!!!

But, well, couldn't you include a a few fic-writing units into your flylady routines?

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 05:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lobelia321.livejournal.com
Oh, Io, you know me too well! I have indeed already tried that FlyLady ruse! It took me 8 months of FlyLady to figure out a way of incorporating her routines of house-cleaning into my book-writing. It may take me a while to transfer it now to fic-writing but believe me, I have tried!

*laughs and laughs*

And it's true, I am writing my rl book, thank you for supporting me in that! *hugs and smooches* I have such a difficult time being proud of what I do.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 06:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] birdgerhl.livejournal.com
god, the mere mention of flylady brings me out in a rash....

b.x ;)

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 06:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lobelia321.livejournal.com
*cackles maniacally*

FlyLady! FlyLady! FlyLady! FlyLady!

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 06:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] birdgerhl.livejournal.com
aw, that's mean.

still not gonna clean my sink though. AND there's (greasy, chinese fried) rice all over the floor!

b.x :)

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-20 06:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sheldrake.livejournal.com
This is all really interesting, although I haven't read it all yet. I have had something of a frustrating day, creativity-wise. I dunno, I used to make things come out of my brain, and now I just feel as though I can't do it any more, and I'm not quite sure how to do it. I though if I coudn't write, I'd try to get back into drawing, but that's proving frustrating, too. Oh dear! (This is the point where I normally start bleating annoyingly about my weird catch-22 situation with antidepressants, so I'll spare you that).

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-23 04:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lobelia321.livejournal.com
Is it the medication?? Maybe there is nothing in the brain to come out? Maybe something needs to be put in? Or maybe (realising silliness of previous remark as the brain is always stuffed to the gills with useless stuff and psycho-clutter), you need to fashion a specially long and powerful suction straw and suck those buggers out? Or, um, you could learn the violin and express yourself that way????!!! Or knit!!

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-26 02:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sheldrake.livejournal.com
Ahhh, I did not receive this comment! Bloody lj.

Actually, I hope it is the meds, because then (in theory) I can just stop taking them and immediately start creating wonderful things. I did try to learn the violin once. It's terribly difficult, you know!

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-21 07:34 am (UTC)
msilverstar: (they say)
From: [personal profile] msilverstar
I've mostly been doing RPGs, because collaborative writing is an amazing joy, the pleasure of the unexpected.

But I'm slowly sliding back into solofic. It feels good too. And I can't seem to write HP or anything else -- the closest I can get is this Lotrips/HP crossover thingie that I'm late with (I am falling in love with it).

Still lotrips for me. Sinking slowly with the ship or whatever.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-23 04:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lobelia321.livejournal.com
I do fondly think of you as the last bastion against the sinking of the Ship! :-)

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-25 05:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] childeproof.livejournal.com
Let me ache with fellow-feeling in your direction.

What I can't decide is whether to regard my own longish gap since last writing Lotrips as the universe's way of telling me it's time to stop (and change fandoms/write a novel/ concentrate on academic writing) or whether I should give in to a recent urge to write another VigBean, or regard this as a temptation to be resisted so I can use my writing urges for other work.

Dunno what's happening with Lotrips - has it essentially ended?

*torn*
)

(no subject)

Date: 2005-11-26 12:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lobelia321.livejournal.com
Oh, I angst about the universe's telling me something! And yes, should I focus everything on my academic writing? But then the urge to write fic keeps cropping up but I just never do it or just in snatches, and then the nostalgia for fb kicks in and argh.

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Lobelia the adverbially eclectic

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