sga: i have questions and i need answers!

[lobelia321]

Calling my List!

Is it detrimental to my health to be watching these SGA episodes tail to tail? Was it less mentally destabling for those of you who saw them in timed week-by-week drip feeds on television? Am I going to be suffering from Stargateglut?

When I first discovered fanon and read SGA fic and had no clue at all about canon, I asked people on my List: why are so many fics about Rodney and Sheppard? The fic that lured me into SGA had, after all, been julad's Rodney/Zelenka so I was kind of surprised not to find hundreds of Zelenka fics out there. Instead, I found hundreds of Sheppard/McKay fics.

Why? Various people told me it was because of canon. That Rodney and Sheppard had this chemistry in canon, that they were always sparring and in situations together.

NOT TRUE!! I believed this because I knew no canon, and I approached canon with much expectation of the Rodney/John goodness. But NO! In 90 percent of the episodes I have watched so far, they do not interact much at all! They are rarely in two-shots together. Most of the time, in fact, they inhabit parallel plot lines. So one of them will be off-world while the other one is doing something on Atlantis, or one of them will be in a coma somewhere while the other one is out in space or under water or in a different geographical location altogether. There is a lot of 'meanwhile back on the farm' between Rodney and Sheppard. And the sparring? So mild, so unchemistry. Rodney/Sheppard is totally not canon! It is all FANON!

Next discovery I make while glued to the SGA ep screen is that a) McKay is God's gift to women, b) McKay loves short-haired blondes and is forever kissing women or fantasising about kissing women in every third episode I've watched, and is so totally het it is mega-cute and yes, the hetter the man, the hotter the slash, and c) McKay interacts a lot with Zelenka.

It is not the OTP McKay/Sheppard that is canon. No! It is the OTP McKay/Zelenka!! I knew it!!!

In the episodes I have watched, I have seen McKay and Zelenka spar, debate, insult each other, spar some more, talk rapidfire science, gaze deeply into each other's eyes, gaze deeply into each other's eyes some more, press their nipples up against their sciency nylon T-shirts, and spar some more.

When I asked what episode do you rec me to watch first, people recced 'Trinity'. Now I realise that they recced this because it is one of the very few, few episodes in which we have some McKay/Sheppard gazing!

Given the deep indifference of McKay to Sheppard in canon (deep slashy indifference, that is; no doubt he esteems him as a colleague blah blah but he does not gaze deeply), where then does the OTPishness in fanon come from? I need a new theory, people. Is it born from the marysueish lust for the rugged good looks of Sheppard that the fans harbour, rather than McKay harbours? And why do the fans lust for the rugged good looks of Sheppard? Why not for the handsome smooth looks of Aiden Ford? Is this because fans prefer white men to brown?

Speaking of brown: someone suggested that the 'random black man' seen by t'h on t'screen was Ford. But the name of Ford's actor is Rainbow Sun Francks. I am not American but this strikes me not as an African American name but as a Native American name. So Ford is not black! He's less black than Lt Uhura!! Plus ¸a change.

I had forgotten how interesting it is to be immersed in a canon. I had forgotten that canon immersion can actually enhance fanon appreciation and fandom involvement. I had forgotten that canon is a wonderful remedy against fanon and enables me, at any rate, to appropriate the whole thing, canon/fanon, for my own purposes.

Because, of course, I continue to insist that Harry/Dudley is the true canon of HP, not Harry/Draco.

I discover that it is not that I am resistant to canon as such but that I have my own take on canon. cathexys would probably call this mycanon, heh.

*cackles perversely as is my wont every four months or so*

Now I must scuttle back to t'realbook. 3,500 words down, 1,500 to go to the end of the Introduction.

Comments

[helenish.livejournal.com]

By the way, I know almost nothing about the things I'm about to say, so, uh, don't take them too seriously.

a) I'm fairly sure the actor who plays Ford is Canadian
b) Rainbow Sun is - um, to my mind, anyhow - definitely not an indigenous peoples name at all. It says to me that his parents were major hippies
c) Also, hello! Rodney and John are just not in scenes together because they have to hide their love and stuff!
d) Also, John is popular because of his Sekrit Heroic Pain.

[cathexys.livejournal.com]

well, actually i'd say that you may be part of a mckay/zelenka interpretive community that has a ashared canon :D

[or you're all alone and then mynon it is!!!]

re trinity: yes, the mckay/sheppard shhow certainly is part of it, but i think people also like the rodney pain and the ethical issues it raises. if you haven't, try to see mamoru's hallelujah vid that is heavily trinity centered and all about rodney and his conflicted relationship to science...have you seen the SG1 eps???

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, I have no problem at all in understanding why the entire fanon is in a whirlwind about McKay. No problem at all, heh, seeing as he is God's gift to women and we are the women, *gg*. Also, I can't help thinking he's the one the script team projects most of the emotion and angst and weakness and contrariness and conflictedness onto. Sheppard is much more of a 'flat' character than Rodney. So, of course, McKay is slashee numero uno.

It's the Sheppard/McKay combination that I wish to have another explanation besides canon for. Is it that slashers pick the top dogs? Which, in this show, are McKay, Sheppard and Weir, and then Weir and Teyla, and that leaves, as men, McKay and Sheppard, so let's put those two together -- is that it, perhaps? A resistance to the non-top billed? A wish to have opposites and Sheppard is more of an 'opposite' than Zelenka to McKay's McKay?

Anyway, all sorts of reasons except that they're not canon. It's just that I was told that it was canon and now I'm finding it's not.

And yes, hah, I am now doubt part of a McKay/Zelenka canon maven minority (though why it is not the majority baffles me) but when I look at that community about Zelenka, I cringe and that community is so not me.

I've seen ten minutes of SG-1. Does that woman Sam play a role? The one Rodney lusts for? Because I definitely lust for her, too.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

that his parents were major hippies

*bursts out laughing*

Oh, in which case I so misinterpreted this! Bwuahaha. But hippies? Very belated ones??! Oh dear, *wipes eye*. Well, I guess it's no worse than April Bingham. I need to read April Bingham fic now but I just bet that there isn't any. Fandom is so predictable.

AHA! Ford is Canadian (well actor!Ford). I have a soft spot for Canada because my parents used to live there and I went there a lot in the early 1990s.

What about this Peter Grodin (spelling?) chap? He has a very odd accent.

Rodney and John are just not in scenes together because they have to hide their love and stuff!
Exactly. Hence it is fanon and not canon. It is about as canon as Dom/Elijah was in lotrps. Where, in case you missed this vital discussion three years ago, it was much debated to what extent New Line Cinema had written clauses into their contracts, forbidding them to out their Eternal Love so that they had to communicate with each other via the Sekrit Code of Yellow T-shirts. (This is true.)

I am starting to get my head wrapped around the Sheppard popularity and yes, okay, I can understand the Sekrit Heroic Pain. Although it's not my personal kick, fair enough. And he does have a mouth like Harrison Ford. Or perhaps that is just because he has spent months in front of the mirror, perfecting that Harrisonian lip quirk.

[giglet.livejournal.com]

Fans love Sheppard because he's set up as ActionMan!Hero and he has adorable hair.

Fans love McKay because 1)he's got a great butt, and 2)he's got great lines, and 3)they've never had to work with someone like him.

Actually, I think a lot of fans are also lured by the built-in Knowledge/Power debate between the Scientist and the Soldier. Whereas the easiest reading of McKay/Zelenka is Genius/Sidekick, which just isn't as much fun.

But yes. More people should be writing McKay/Zelenka. You should, definitely.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Also, *lifts finger*, if Rodney and John have to hide their love and stuff, why is Rodney forever gazing into Radek's eyes? Is this because he must be gazing at somebody as he is filled with loving vibes for John so he gazes at Radek as next best thing? Is it because Rodney is unfaithful to John and up for Czech quickies behind the naqadah generator? Or is it because Radek is unattainable and Rodney has to make do with military? Or is Rodney just wonderfully promiscuous and happy to romp with anyone?

This needs to be explained!!!

[cathexys.livejournal.com]

but the entire point of my repeated arguments on interpretive communities is that canon is what we make of it. and slashers, who have been trained/trained themselves to translate certain on-screen events (snarkiness, touching, etc.) into canonical proof of the chosen couple's connection, thus see this as canon.

i think there are certainly other reasons (JF being more conventionally attractive than DN for one; the dynamic people look for in their pairing with opposites; the fact that zelenka is not really that much *in* the show,..), but i do believe that large numbers of fans really *do* see that connection that you do not.

and while i can see the scenes where rodney and radek have potential and believe that in RL they'd be much better suited, i find the dynamic between sheppard and mckay more interesting, better fodder for stories, and overall more enticing...


yes, sam is one of the members of the SG1 team (jack, daniel, and teal'c being the original 3 others). rodney is in a couple of episodes and basically was written as the foil to enhance sam's brilliance. he's the theorist to her practical experience, the one whose calculation might be correct but who would be proven wrong my sam's intuition.

in fact, the changes in mckay from SG1 through the SGA seasons is one of the most interesting things to me!!!

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

the built-in Knowledge/Power debate between the Scientist and the Soldier
But this is what I've discovered in canon: there isn't any built-in knowlege/power debate of this sort. There is barely any debate between the two of them! The debate is not built-in at all; it is a fanon loft extension!

Okay, I am starting to buy the Action Man thing. It is not my thing but I can see how it would be other people's thing. But why do people tend to have a thing only for the Action Man and the Great Butt McKay? Why not for Zelenka, Ford, Bates, Miller, Kavanagh, I dunno? Why not 'Rrrodney' Dr Becket???!! There is a bit of Ronon, yes, and I've read some Beckett but quantitatively so rare.

I've not yet seen McKay's bum. This must feature in episodes I have yet to view. Ah, I love to have something to look forward to. There was that bum post someone made some weeks ago; I've lost the link, though. It was hilarious; did you see it??

they've never had to work with someone like him
I like that. Is that true? Isn't Snape a bit like this?

Also, you don't need to convince me of the fabulousness of McKay. I am already there. And maybe the fabulousness of Sheppard is something I can empathise with, too. But it's the fabulousness of both of these in OTP combination that I'm still working on. Or is it just a default setting? Take your two favourites and wham them into bed together?

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

I fear that yes, it is not canon that provides the McKay/Sheppard but the conventional attractiveness of Flanagan -- I think you are all too right there and it is one of those points that I find least interesting in fandom, the propensity to fall for the conventionally teh pretty. Though, perversely, I have been known to do the same but then, I am not always very interesting myself... (I just need to say the words 'Orlando Bloom'....)

Canon is, yes, what we make of it but the making-of-it is not random nor haphazard. Reception is guided by what is there. This is why I like getting into canon, it is like a corrective to fanon. Yes, canon is interpretive-community but it is a different interpretive-community from fanon. So instead of always saying interpretive-community-of-x (which is boring to type), I'll just say canon and fanon.

Hm, do you then see the McKay/Sheppard connection? And in which episodes does it come to the fore the most?

Giglet said that McKay and Zelenka are genius/sidekick which I find a hilarious description. Maybe only someone like julad who is a bit of a genius herself can pull off that Batmanian/Robinian pairing, *g*.

i find the dynamic between sheppard and mckay more interesting, better fodder for stories,
This to me is the mystery. Yes, in fanon there is LOADS of dynamic. But in canon I do not see any dynamic between Sheppard and McKay. It is willed by fans who lust for Sheppard's Harry-Potter hair.

What episodes of SG1 have good Rodney in them, then?? (My abject addiction is such that I am now willing to consider borrowing or stealing this, too! I am doomed. Doomed.)

[cathexys.livejournal.com]

If I may go meta for just a second...are you aware of how condescending you come across by dismissing as conventional and boring what many of us see and love ? I understand the need to defend and explain one's preference, but by shorthanding what you see as canon and what i see as fanon, you're effectively short circuiting what i'm trying to avoid when i talk about your and my interpretation of what we see on screen, our own readings as they shape into "canon." you want moments? hide&seek; 38 minutes; underground; defiant one;... (or should i just give you an episode guide of both seasons :-) re sg1...argh,...what are the titles...one is 48 hours and the other redemption maybe? it's a two parter...yes, checked IMDB...it's redemption 1 and 2 and then moebius 1 and 2. (which i just realized i don't think i've seen) i'm pretty sure his scenes are floating around or maybe the entire eps??? [i don't have them as handy avi's or i'd just offer to send them, sorry!]

[cathexys.livejournal.com]

argh...not only do i insult you in your own journal; i do so without paragraph breaks...

i had them, swear to...

[cathexys.livejournal.com]

rodneyin the nude is actually from century hotel...most of david hewlett's film have been msking the rounds among, shall we say, committed fans...if nothing else, chek out cube, which is really great, and if you can download the hewlitt scenes from CH, they're well worth it!!!

[giglet.livejournal.com]

>they've never had to work with someone like him
I like that. Is that true? Isn't Snape a bit like this?

No, my conjecture was that these fans never had a coworker who was brilliant and abrasive like McKay. And that if they'd suffered such a person once, they'd be less likely to find McKay so very attractive from the distance of fandom.

So far as I know, McKay's butt has not been featured on the show. But the butt of the person who plays him has been seen many times, and visual evidence from Century Hotel, I think, made the rounds on LJ sometime last year. And *it* is a fabulous butt.

[trill100.livejournal.com]

On RSF's ethnicity, I'm almost certain his mother is half indian. Or something. One of his parents is part native american. His sister's name is Cree Summer. (the voice of Foxy Love)

So, do John and Rodney sekritly comunicate via Rodney's nipples?

[neth-dugan.livejournal.com]

Rainbow is Canadian, and as for his name... there's a few reasons (including a story about his dad and a photo), and his parents did, aparently, spend some time on a reservation.

As for Peter's accent... there's a long story, and I missed most of it, but it's some what similar to the accent those with sub-coninant ancestory who've grown up or spent a lot of time in England, especially the posher/more educated bits.


And, I know nothing about LotR RPS so... I wont go into that, though I think I've stumbled across that before.

And, ah, sorry for just barging in.

[imwithrebel.livejournal.com]

Here through sga_newsletter.

I'm not a slasher (or a shipper, for that matter), but I am a big fan of the McKay-Sheppard friendship aspect of the show. They aren't together in every episode, but neither are any of the other characters always together (though some are together more than others), but they are together a good deal and have a lot of interactions that seem sibling-ish to me, respect, and they work well together. You made it clear that you haven't seen all of the episodes yet. Which episodes have you seen? It's possible that the selection of ones you've seen are ones where circumstances have kept them apart and you haven't gotten to see enough of them together yet to get why people love them.

[neth-dugan.livejournal.com]

Okay, I'm just gonna come to the defence of all us McSheppers here.

First, it's not just because Joe is such a looker, though he is. Infact, a fair few people I know who are McSheppers are more into David Hewlett, including me. Though, love Joe too, and Paul, and the other David. And Jason, and Rainbow... and the entire frelling cast. Met a few of them.


ANYWAY.

It's not just that, and to be honest dismissing it as just that as some have done can be seen as rather insulting. It's not an automatic "Ooo, he's conventionately GORGOUS, let's pair him off" otherwise we'd all be McKay/Beckett slashers. And, they're not in it for the looks either, I know this cause one of my best friends is a McBecker.


Also, John isn't stupid, the man is a closet genius/geek. I mean, he passed the MENSA exam, though he chose not to join, and pops out with math/science stuff. So it's not a genius/dumb goon thing, either. John's a Dork, and even Joe actually said that, after it was pointed out to him (and that it was, indeed, a good thing). To quote him, "a dorky hero".


The chemistry was there from the start, since they walked through the gate! They imediately start hanging around together, looking out for the other, and when Rodney gets a cool new gadget to work, who does who go to? John! Who shoots him in the leg, throws him off a balcony, all the while the two having a jolly good time and grinning at each other like loons.


And, my fellow McShepper above pointed out some of the main episodes, but she's right, it's easier to just give you an episode list.

To me, it's obvious, it's there right from the start and is still there... it's so blatent. And it's not just because I've 'trained' myself to see these things, because I ship as much as I slash.

[saeva.livejournal.com]

I'm with you on not seeing the McKay/Sheppard, though I think some of it is first impressions.

While I'd argue that M/S were less close and less friendly, or their relative definitions of friendly, in the first season many people interpret the proximity as a sort of chemistry. They're together and "forced" -- though given that Sheppard chose his own team and McKay agreed without any apparent pressure from outside quarters, forced is hardly the right word for it -- to work together in the first season much more. Therefore people get attached and while S2 could be positively anti-Sheppard/McKay without a stretch in interpretation, people aren't going to give up their ship now. They're invested.

And, dude, I don't even think McKay has indifference to Sheppard. I think he'd really like to be friends with Sheppard and Sheppard actually expresses the same sentiment, they're just totally different styles of friends and so it comes out as bitching when they mix-up signals (friendly signals). I just think there's no chemistry or interest there between the two of them. They *both* have better chemistry with D. Nykl's Radek Zelenka character.

Oh, also, R.S. Francks is biracial, half-Caucasian, half-black Canadian; his parents are just hippies (his father (http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Balcony/9085/00000003.gif) especially). For that matter, Rachell Luttrell is also biracial (American Caucasian/African, I believe her mother is Kenyan specifically) though she was raised in Canada, and Jason Momoa? Is of recent Hawai'ian descent and isn't black at all. Try convincing fandom of these things though, especially when they're writing the "dismorphic African-American experience." -- But who am I to bitch? At least it's not as bad as Harry Potter fandom.

All Hail Canada and it's incestuous TV casting tendencies (using David Hewlett or Grace Park -- of BSG fame -- in Six Degree of Scifi Separation is practically cheating *grins*).

- Andrea.

[rosewildeirish.livejournal.com]

And yes, hah, I am now doubt part of a McKay/Zelenka canon maven minority (though why it is not the majority baffles me) but when I look at that community about Zelenka, I cringe and that community is so not me.

Hmm. I'm assuming you mean the communities here on LJ, in which case, what I was going to say is kind of pointless now.

And from further down in your postings... Maybe only someone like julad who is a bit of a genius herself can pull off that Batmanian/Robinian pairing, *g*.

Which makes pimping perian's fanfic index (http://zelenka.fakingsanity.net/fanfic/fanfic.html) kind of pointless, but maybe someone else would like to look at it.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Half Indian as in American Indian or as in Bengali or Punjabi etc. Indian?

Who is Foxy Love?

Cree Summer! Is that also a hippie name or is that definitely native American?

No, Rodney's nipples communicate with Radek's only!!

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Aha, the plot re Rainbow is thickening.

Of course, we are speaking here of the actor. I suddenly realise this. Duh, it is my rps training. *bangs head* Of course, the ethnic origins about the actor Rainbow says absolutely nothing about the character Ford. Who may, indeed, well be African American. Hm, is Ford Canadian? Because if he is Canadian, there definitely needs to be more McKay/Ford patriotic slash.

with sub-coninant ancestory What does this mean??? *is puzzled*

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Oh. No, I had no idea of how condescending I come across. I have a sort of jaunty LJ style, perhaps this doesn't translate well from my former lotrips days into the wider community that my flist has become. I am sorry but I genuinely had no idea. Hm, perhaps this is why I was metafandomed so rudely back in January? Maybe I came across as condescending to all those people who then condescended to me? I am not dissing anybody's preference, goodness, a thousand flowers and all that, this is fannish banter. Because I am so squeeishly delighted at finally being able to jump in on the bandwagon! And don't we all defend our OTPs? Gods, the mock duels I used to have with people over the merits and demerits of Viggo vs John Noble and so forth. We were constantly smiting each other in LJ and on chat. Does that not happen any more?? I mean, we're all seeing the same episodes, I take it, so everyone can form their own view and doesn't need mine??

I really didn't mean to be condescending.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Ooh, what is this fanfic index you speak of? I must to bed now but will take a look at it forthwith. Although I don't think I know perian.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Oh, I see! This is also about Rodney's unclothed bum! Hoho. Thanks for this.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Oh, I see what you mean now! I completely misunderstood that. I thought you meant to 'work with' as in 'to write a fic around', not as in 'to work with irl'. And yes, that would be a pain. Except my judgement is so clouded at this stage that I'm also thinking 'or NOT'. Doomed, I told you.