sga: i have questions and i need answers!

[lobelia321]

Calling my List!

Is it detrimental to my health to be watching these SGA episodes tail to tail? Was it less mentally destabling for those of you who saw them in timed week-by-week drip feeds on television? Am I going to be suffering from Stargateglut?

When I first discovered fanon and read SGA fic and had no clue at all about canon, I asked people on my List: why are so many fics about Rodney and Sheppard? The fic that lured me into SGA had, after all, been julad's Rodney/Zelenka so I was kind of surprised not to find hundreds of Zelenka fics out there. Instead, I found hundreds of Sheppard/McKay fics.

Why? Various people told me it was because of canon. That Rodney and Sheppard had this chemistry in canon, that they were always sparring and in situations together.

NOT TRUE!! I believed this because I knew no canon, and I approached canon with much expectation of the Rodney/John goodness. But NO! In 90 percent of the episodes I have watched so far, they do not interact much at all! They are rarely in two-shots together. Most of the time, in fact, they inhabit parallel plot lines. So one of them will be off-world while the other one is doing something on Atlantis, or one of them will be in a coma somewhere while the other one is out in space or under water or in a different geographical location altogether. There is a lot of 'meanwhile back on the farm' between Rodney and Sheppard. And the sparring? So mild, so unchemistry. Rodney/Sheppard is totally not canon! It is all FANON!

Next discovery I make while glued to the SGA ep screen is that a) McKay is God's gift to women, b) McKay loves short-haired blondes and is forever kissing women or fantasising about kissing women in every third episode I've watched, and is so totally het it is mega-cute and yes, the hetter the man, the hotter the slash, and c) McKay interacts a lot with Zelenka.

It is not the OTP McKay/Sheppard that is canon. No! It is the OTP McKay/Zelenka!! I knew it!!!

In the episodes I have watched, I have seen McKay and Zelenka spar, debate, insult each other, spar some more, talk rapidfire science, gaze deeply into each other's eyes, gaze deeply into each other's eyes some more, press their nipples up against their sciency nylon T-shirts, and spar some more.

When I asked what episode do you rec me to watch first, people recced 'Trinity'. Now I realise that they recced this because it is one of the very few, few episodes in which we have some McKay/Sheppard gazing!

Given the deep indifference of McKay to Sheppard in canon (deep slashy indifference, that is; no doubt he esteems him as a colleague blah blah but he does not gaze deeply), where then does the OTPishness in fanon come from? I need a new theory, people. Is it born from the marysueish lust for the rugged good looks of Sheppard that the fans harbour, rather than McKay harbours? And why do the fans lust for the rugged good looks of Sheppard? Why not for the handsome smooth looks of Aiden Ford? Is this because fans prefer white men to brown?

Speaking of brown: someone suggested that the 'random black man' seen by t'h on t'screen was Ford. But the name of Ford's actor is Rainbow Sun Francks. I am not American but this strikes me not as an African American name but as a Native American name. So Ford is not black! He's less black than Lt Uhura!! Plus ¸a change.

I had forgotten how interesting it is to be immersed in a canon. I had forgotten that canon immersion can actually enhance fanon appreciation and fandom involvement. I had forgotten that canon is a wonderful remedy against fanon and enables me, at any rate, to appropriate the whole thing, canon/fanon, for my own purposes.

Because, of course, I continue to insist that Harry/Dudley is the true canon of HP, not Harry/Draco.

I discover that it is not that I am resistant to canon as such but that I have my own take on canon. cathexys would probably call this mycanon, heh.

*cackles perversely as is my wont every four months or so*

Now I must scuttle back to t'realbook. 3,500 words down, 1,500 to go to the end of the Introduction.

Comments

[helenish.livejournal.com]

By the way, I know almost nothing about the things I'm about to say, so, uh, don't take them too seriously.

a) I'm fairly sure the actor who plays Ford is Canadian
b) Rainbow Sun is - um, to my mind, anyhow - definitely not an indigenous peoples name at all. It says to me that his parents were major hippies
c) Also, hello! Rodney and John are just not in scenes together because they have to hide their love and stuff!
d) Also, John is popular because of his Sekrit Heroic Pain.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

that his parents were major hippies

*bursts out laughing*

Oh, in which case I so misinterpreted this! Bwuahaha. But hippies? Very belated ones??! Oh dear, *wipes eye*. Well, I guess it's no worse than April Bingham. I need to read April Bingham fic now but I just bet that there isn't any. Fandom is so predictable.

AHA! Ford is Canadian (well actor!Ford). I have a soft spot for Canada because my parents used to live there and I went there a lot in the early 1990s.

What about this Peter Grodin (spelling?) chap? He has a very odd accent.

Rodney and John are just not in scenes together because they have to hide their love and stuff!
Exactly. Hence it is fanon and not canon. It is about as canon as Dom/Elijah was in lotrps. Where, in case you missed this vital discussion three years ago, it was much debated to what extent New Line Cinema had written clauses into their contracts, forbidding them to out their Eternal Love so that they had to communicate with each other via the Sekrit Code of Yellow T-shirts. (This is true.)

I am starting to get my head wrapped around the Sheppard popularity and yes, okay, I can understand the Sekrit Heroic Pain. Although it's not my personal kick, fair enough. And he does have a mouth like Harrison Ford. Or perhaps that is just because he has spent months in front of the mirror, perfecting that Harrisonian lip quirk.

[trill100.livejournal.com]

On RSF's ethnicity, I'm almost certain his mother is half indian. Or something. One of his parents is part native american. His sister's name is Cree Summer. (the voice of Foxy Love)

So, do John and Rodney sekritly comunicate via Rodney's nipples?

[neth-dugan.livejournal.com]

Rainbow is Canadian, and as for his name... there's a few reasons (including a story about his dad and a photo), and his parents did, aparently, spend some time on a reservation.

As for Peter's accent... there's a long story, and I missed most of it, but it's some what similar to the accent those with sub-coninant ancestory who've grown up or spent a lot of time in England, especially the posher/more educated bits.


And, I know nothing about LotR RPS so... I wont go into that, though I think I've stumbled across that before.

And, ah, sorry for just barging in.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Also, *lifts finger*, if Rodney and John have to hide their love and stuff, why is Rodney forever gazing into Radek's eyes? Is this because he must be gazing at somebody as he is filled with loving vibes for John so he gazes at Radek as next best thing? Is it because Rodney is unfaithful to John and up for Czech quickies behind the naqadah generator? Or is it because Radek is unattainable and Rodney has to make do with military? Or is Rodney just wonderfully promiscuous and happy to romp with anyone?

This needs to be explained!!!

[cathexys.livejournal.com]

well, actually i'd say that you may be part of a mckay/zelenka interpretive community that has a ashared canon :D

[or you're all alone and then mynon it is!!!]

re trinity: yes, the mckay/sheppard shhow certainly is part of it, but i think people also like the rodney pain and the ethical issues it raises. if you haven't, try to see mamoru's hallelujah vid that is heavily trinity centered and all about rodney and his conflicted relationship to science...have you seen the SG1 eps???

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, I have no problem at all in understanding why the entire fanon is in a whirlwind about McKay. No problem at all, heh, seeing as he is God's gift to women and we are the women, *gg*. Also, I can't help thinking he's the one the script team projects most of the emotion and angst and weakness and contrariness and conflictedness onto. Sheppard is much more of a 'flat' character than Rodney. So, of course, McKay is slashee numero uno.

It's the Sheppard/McKay combination that I wish to have another explanation besides canon for. Is it that slashers pick the top dogs? Which, in this show, are McKay, Sheppard and Weir, and then Weir and Teyla, and that leaves, as men, McKay and Sheppard, so let's put those two together -- is that it, perhaps? A resistance to the non-top billed? A wish to have opposites and Sheppard is more of an 'opposite' than Zelenka to McKay's McKay?

Anyway, all sorts of reasons except that they're not canon. It's just that I was told that it was canon and now I'm finding it's not.

And yes, hah, I am now doubt part of a McKay/Zelenka canon maven minority (though why it is not the majority baffles me) but when I look at that community about Zelenka, I cringe and that community is so not me.

I've seen ten minutes of SG-1. Does that woman Sam play a role? The one Rodney lusts for? Because I definitely lust for her, too.

[giglet.livejournal.com]

Fans love Sheppard because he's set up as ActionMan!Hero and he has adorable hair.

Fans love McKay because 1)he's got a great butt, and 2)he's got great lines, and 3)they've never had to work with someone like him.

Actually, I think a lot of fans are also lured by the built-in Knowledge/Power debate between the Scientist and the Soldier. Whereas the easiest reading of McKay/Zelenka is Genius/Sidekick, which just isn't as much fun.

But yes. More people should be writing McKay/Zelenka. You should, definitely.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

the built-in Knowledge/Power debate between the Scientist and the Soldier
But this is what I've discovered in canon: there isn't any built-in knowlege/power debate of this sort. There is barely any debate between the two of them! The debate is not built-in at all; it is a fanon loft extension!

Okay, I am starting to buy the Action Man thing. It is not my thing but I can see how it would be other people's thing. But why do people tend to have a thing only for the Action Man and the Great Butt McKay? Why not for Zelenka, Ford, Bates, Miller, Kavanagh, I dunno? Why not 'Rrrodney' Dr Becket???!! There is a bit of Ronon, yes, and I've read some Beckett but quantitatively so rare.

I've not yet seen McKay's bum. This must feature in episodes I have yet to view. Ah, I love to have something to look forward to. There was that bum post someone made some weeks ago; I've lost the link, though. It was hilarious; did you see it??

they've never had to work with someone like him
I like that. Is that true? Isn't Snape a bit like this?

Also, you don't need to convince me of the fabulousness of McKay. I am already there. And maybe the fabulousness of Sheppard is something I can empathise with, too. But it's the fabulousness of both of these in OTP combination that I'm still working on. Or is it just a default setting? Take your two favourites and wham them into bed together?

[imwithrebel.livejournal.com]

Here through sga_newsletter.

I'm not a slasher (or a shipper, for that matter), but I am a big fan of the McKay-Sheppard friendship aspect of the show. They aren't together in every episode, but neither are any of the other characters always together (though some are together more than others), but they are together a good deal and have a lot of interactions that seem sibling-ish to me, respect, and they work well together. You made it clear that you haven't seen all of the episodes yet. Which episodes have you seen? It's possible that the selection of ones you've seen are ones where circumstances have kept them apart and you haven't gotten to see enough of them together yet to get why people love them.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

I have seen Rising, 38 Minutes, Graceful under Pressure (did I get that right?), Siege Part 1, The Gift, Letter from Pegasus, Duel and Trinity. Hah, slowly getting there!

It's not that I'm not getting the Sheppard/McKay thing in fandom. I'm just not seeing it in canon as much as I'm seeing it in fandom. Possibly this is because of coming at canon via fanon. I had already read loads and loads of fic by the time I even got my first glimpse of Hewlett arse so my expectations were skewed!!! I kept thinking, so why aren't they hugging?? Hug already!

[neth-dugan.livejournal.com]

Okay, I'm just gonna come to the defence of all us McSheppers here.

First, it's not just because Joe is such a looker, though he is. Infact, a fair few people I know who are McSheppers are more into David Hewlett, including me. Though, love Joe too, and Paul, and the other David. And Jason, and Rainbow... and the entire frelling cast. Met a few of them.


ANYWAY.

It's not just that, and to be honest dismissing it as just that as some have done can be seen as rather insulting. It's not an automatic "Ooo, he's conventionately GORGOUS, let's pair him off" otherwise we'd all be McKay/Beckett slashers. And, they're not in it for the looks either, I know this cause one of my best friends is a McBecker.


Also, John isn't stupid, the man is a closet genius/geek. I mean, he passed the MENSA exam, though he chose not to join, and pops out with math/science stuff. So it's not a genius/dumb goon thing, either. John's a Dork, and even Joe actually said that, after it was pointed out to him (and that it was, indeed, a good thing). To quote him, "a dorky hero".


The chemistry was there from the start, since they walked through the gate! They imediately start hanging around together, looking out for the other, and when Rodney gets a cool new gadget to work, who does who go to? John! Who shoots him in the leg, throws him off a balcony, all the while the two having a jolly good time and grinning at each other like loons.


And, my fellow McShepper above pointed out some of the main episodes, but she's right, it's easier to just give you an episode list.

To me, it's obvious, it's there right from the start and is still there... it's so blatent. And it's not just because I've 'trained' myself to see these things, because I ship as much as I slash.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

This is interesting. I guess we're back to what cathexys says about mycanons: how we can all see the selfsame material in such different light.

I don't at all think that John is stupid, far from it. I haven't yet watched the math and the MENSA episodes but I know about all that stuff from fanon but nobody on the show is 'stupid', really, are they? Except possibly Ronon from what I can gather from fanon but I haven't got round to him in canon yet! *g*

I like that term, McBecker.

[saeva.livejournal.com]

I'm with you on not seeing the McKay/Sheppard, though I think some of it is first impressions.

While I'd argue that M/S were less close and less friendly, or their relative definitions of friendly, in the first season many people interpret the proximity as a sort of chemistry. They're together and "forced" -- though given that Sheppard chose his own team and McKay agreed without any apparent pressure from outside quarters, forced is hardly the right word for it -- to work together in the first season much more. Therefore people get attached and while S2 could be positively anti-Sheppard/McKay without a stretch in interpretation, people aren't going to give up their ship now. They're invested.

And, dude, I don't even think McKay has indifference to Sheppard. I think he'd really like to be friends with Sheppard and Sheppard actually expresses the same sentiment, they're just totally different styles of friends and so it comes out as bitching when they mix-up signals (friendly signals). I just think there's no chemistry or interest there between the two of them. They *both* have better chemistry with D. Nykl's Radek Zelenka character.

Oh, also, R.S. Francks is biracial, half-Caucasian, half-black Canadian; his parents are just hippies (his father (http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Balcony/9085/00000003.gif) especially). For that matter, Rachell Luttrell is also biracial (American Caucasian/African, I believe her mother is Kenyan specifically) though she was raised in Canada, and Jason Momoa? Is of recent Hawai'ian descent and isn't black at all. Try convincing fandom of these things though, especially when they're writing the "dismorphic African-American experience." -- But who am I to bitch? At least it's not as bad as Harry Potter fandom.

All Hail Canada and it's incestuous TV casting tendencies (using David Hewlett or Grace Park -- of BSG fame -- in Six Degree of Scifi Separation is practically cheating *grins*).

- Andrea.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Ack, who is Jason Momoa? Who is Grace Park? What is BSG? I am hopeless.

Someone further up said that Rainbow Francks's sister is called Cree Sunshine or something similar which does sound rather Native American, and that he once used to live on a reservation?? Who knows. And as I said above, I then realised that I had been silly. Because that is, of course, the actor. It says nothing about who the character Ford is. He may well be African American! He may be an African American played by a Canadian actor!

Is this, btw, a Canadian show? is this why there are so many Canadians in it??

HP fandom is a scary place.

[princealia.livejournal.com]

I wanna say I've read Jason is Native American, Hawaiian, German, and Irish.

[2am-optimism.livejournal.com]

This is a really interesting post for me, as it totally feels like my intro to SGA fandom all over again (I hopped over from Lotrips too).

I didn't really get what all the fuss was about initially - esp. over Sheppard, who, (bless), I still find makes far too many confused faces in canon for me too ever take him *too* seriously. (I am *so* tempted to make a vid just out of his puzzled expressions on the show). I also didn't see any particularly intense on-screen interaction in the early parts of season 1 that would explain the popularity of McShep. (Later s2 eps however...thinks of Aurora, and Inferno and Allies in particular)

But yeah, when I first watched SGA, I totally fell for Rodney, and one of the first fics I read was julad's Rodney/Radek, and they were my first pairing of choice in canon and fanon for a while, except there's SO LITTLE FIC, dammit.

Then fanon sucked me into the Shep love (and omg I love this show, but seriously, how much more complex and interesting is fanon than canon?). It's taken a while, (and exposure to Joe Flanigan in other roles), but I have developed a deep and abiding crush on the guy. (Um, I do tend to think of him in the same vein as I do Orli - ie that 'I can't explain *why* I think he's pretty, and yet I obviously do', way)

I think personally, part of the attraction of the pairing now is that Rodney for me is equal parts hotass and pseudo-Mary Sue (because of the geek factor). And him getting the jock/action hero/man-of-sekrit-pain is just too good an opportunity for me *not* to gobble up in fanfic as it provides a wonderfully escapist resolution to all the crushes on the hot and unattainable guys I've nurtured since school :)

I *thoroughly* second the rec for Century Hotel, btw. If you're having problems finding it let me know and I can send it to you.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Hah, another former lotripper! *glomps* Did I know you? Under another name perhaps? Ah, remember the yahoo group days??? *zones out into nostalgia mode*

Aha, Aurora, Allies, got that. Haven't got that far in my viewing yet! But given my current addiction...

After initial exclusive McKay lust, I am now really starting to like the women (we got short shrift of those in lotrips!); Teyla for one is gorgeous plus tough, and I'm really liking Dr Weir, too, even her absurd eye-squinting!

And at the moment, oh, teh Beckett love!

Then fanon sucked me into the Shep love (and omg I love this show, but seriously, how much more complex and interesting is fanon than canon?). It's taken a while, (and exposure to Joe Flanigan in other roles), but I have developed a deep and abiding crush on the guy. (Um, I do tend to think of him in the same vein as I do Orli - ie that 'I can't explain *why* I think he's pretty, and yet I obviously do', way)
*bursts out laughing* Oh, you are so LOST! You are doomed! Once Orli is in play.. we are all doomed! Well, I myself have doomed in and out of Orli several times over my course of lotripping and yes. Haha, so is Sheppard the Orli of SGA? Just less curly?\

Century Hotel. Okay. Got it. Oh, and your points about McKay being part hotass and part Sue: great!

[princealia.livejournal.com]

First of all, bless you for making this post in a very McKay/Sheppard dominant fandom, lol.

Is it detrimental to my health to be watching these SGA episodes tail to tail?

I wouldn't say so at all. I know that's what I had to do a year ago and I'd say it actually helped a little to take all the episodes in at once. I was able to see the development (or lack there of) in a day, and if something was referenced back I was able to remember what they said on a certain thing easier.

That Rodney and Sheppard had this chemistry in canon, that they were always sparring and in situations together.

They do, but to me they have about as much of a chemistry as McKay and Zelenka like you said, or Ronon and Teyla, or McKay and Beckett. But you're talking to a person who doesn't slash or ship, so this is all based from my non-pairing brain. I will say though, that the Sheppard/McKay presence was a lot lower than it was in season 1. They had their moments, but compared to season 1? Not even close. This season focused a lot more on them individually than it did together, which I am partially thankful for because you don't want an overkill of the same two people on screen constantly *kicks them to stop doing that with Ronon and Teyla cause it's driving me mad*.
I just find the little battles and snark moments funny. That's part of why I personally watch. I like 'teh funniz'.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Well, thank you so much. Because some people got annoyed with me and that upset my apparently overly frail self and made me scuttle away from this post for six days. So I never got to see your comment! :-)

You saw these episodes in a day??? I am rationing them out one ep per lunch hour, and event that is doing my head in!! Hah.

And I haven't even really gone into series 2 yet! I've watched the odd episode. *braces self*

[stungunbilly.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I must say that, given your comments, it doesn't sound like you've watched the whole show from the beginning and in order. It wasn't the fan fiction that sold me on McKay/Sheppard, it was the show. Personally, I'm all for more McKay/Zelenka stories, though, so I hate to argue against reading canon as pro Rodney/Radek. Zelenka is adorable, and I love scenes where he interacts with McKay. Those two have some fantastic scenes in the last few episodes of Season One that I think would make a great springboard for fiction.

Since I didn't actually see Sheppard as pretty, or like Rodney at first, or see them as likely friends in any way, I started out as a huge Ford fan. Watching the first season from the start, though, by the middle I was completely hooked on McKay's un-tv-conventional heroic arc, and the friendship between him and Sheppard was looking like a developing beautiful one. His unexpected fondness for Rodney made me love Sheppard. This continued up through the two episodes of Seaon Two, where the writing style changed and they focussed more on the comedic aspect of McKay. Sheppard revealed some lovable dorkiness and also made some historically important clown remarks that won me over forever.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

I have not yet watched my way through the series, you are right! I started out with The Rising, and then skipped to random episodes in Series 2, and then watched the last 4 episodes of series 1, and then finally! I decided to watch the whole thing from A to Z, so am only now beginning to make sense of it! I have to say, I watched some comedic McKay (did you mean Duet, for example?) and I just adored it. I thought, wow, they are doing that with their show, they are daring to take the light approach? Great.

It is so bizarre coming at a canon 'the wrong way round', that is, via the fanon. I like it, though! And at the moment I am overcome by teh Beckett lust. Utterly.

Those eyebrows! Those Rrrs! *swoons* And does he ever have moments with McKay...

[sgatlantislight.livejournal.com]

Okay, first off, I slash and ship the SGA people all kinds of ways, including McKay/Sheppard, McKay/Zelenka, and McKay/Beckett, just to name a few. So, I'm not an OTP kinda person.

Second, keep in mind you've seen 9 hours out of 40 hours of canon, and most of the eps you've seen haven't involved Sheppard's off-world team. There is a *lot* of Sheppard-McKay interaction in the 31 hours you haven't seen. Given the eps you've seen, I'm not sure I could see much more than a glimmer of McShep.

Third, Zelenka is in less than half the episodes, so it's inevitable that people are going to see more sparks between Sheppard and McKay than between Zelenka and McKay.

Fourth, McKay really is the little black dress of Atlantis-- he slashes really well with just about everyone (It probably doesn't help that David Hewlett had a really, really hot mankissing scene in Century Hotel followed by a nude afterglow scene). I've seen McKay/Kolya and McKay/Hermiod fics, for Pete's sake.

If you *really* want to know and aren't just saying that, check out the McKay/Sheppard Slash Manifesto at http://community.livejournal.com/ship_manifesto/103806.html . It explains a lot, though it's very spoilery for a lot of season 1 eps that you haven't seen.

And for Zelenka stuff, check out: tajneinformace, welovezelenka, and wondergeeks. And keep in mind that sometimes these comms are a little tame because David Nykl has been known to at least wander through welovezelenka upon occasion, so some people got a little freaked about posting smut fic and smut art where the actor could see it.

Oh, and as an aside, Canadians don't use the term Native American for obvious reasons. :)

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

McKay/Beckett! Yes, I have only today succumbed to the hot and irrational Beckett lust, and I am entirely won over. Oh, those eyebrows and those Rrrs... *melts on floor*

And omg, you mean I have seen nine hours?? I guess I have... I am rationing myself, one episode per lunch hour. I may make it through to Easter this way!

Zelenka is in fewer than half the episodes? *weeps*

Oh, and everyone refers to this Century Hotel which I must see! Hot mankissing, whoa. And I thought McKay/Beckett was hot enough for the mankissing already... Heh, I like the little black dress analogy. He's a bit like Dominic Monaghan in lotrips, then, *g*.

Oh, and thanks for manifesto link!!

Nykl looks at welovezelenka???? *has mild fit and runs to unsubscribe* I've been in an rps fandom and I don't want to go there, that way madness lies.

Hm, Canadians don't say native Americans? I thought that was the p.c. term but it is not? What is the correct term then? I didn't think anyone anymore said 'Indians'. Is it something to do with first nations?

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Oh wow, that link to the manifesto was really enlightening. Thanks for that! I clearly have some fun episodes to go!