rps characters are empty signifiers
Jul. 8th, 2006 09:46 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
lobelia321• Last night I had a dream about Cristiano Ronaldo. He canoodled up to me but I was reserved. (111) (Something has clearly gone wrong with my unconscious somewhere along the line there.) And the main thing I kept thinking in the dream was, hah, wait till I tell people on LJ that I've actually met him. (More proof that slashy fandom is all about the exchange of men among women, twisting Lévi-Strauss's theories about women being exchange tokens in the homosocial economy of men into something that the old unreconstructed 1950s structuralist did not anticipate, *g*.)
My god, this fandom is transporting me back to the days of lotrips -- I have never dreamed of any fps character; they are too unreal. Or, to formulate this differently: they are (paradoxically) too real. An fps character like, for example, Draco Malfoy or Dr Rodney McKay, is at the same time vague and ill-defined (what exactly does Draco look like? what precisely is McKay's family background, and is his cat white or black?) and fleshed-out and replete (Draco has a whole host of canonical characteristics and attributes that cannot be spirited away; McKay is embodied in the flesh, blood and bare upper arms of David Hewlett).
For this reason, I also find that an fps character is more resistant to my Mary Sueishness. They are too fictional, too real. (Because fiction is real. Words make things real.)
Rps characters, by contrast, are total chimaerae. They are wraiths (and not of the SGA variety). They are insubstantial; they are surface; they are the ultimate screens for our projections. As you know, I love Roland Barthes, and somewhere (I think, it's in his essay on myth at the end of Mythologies Today) he writes about the empty signifier. This is, for example, the black pebble. The black pebble means nothing by itself. It is completely empty. Only in the context of the ancient Athenian practice of pronouncing death sentence, does it come to mean something. The jurors (or whoever they were) put either a white pebble or a black pebble in a bag; these were then counted, and if there were more black pebbles, the sentence for the accused was death. So here, the empty signifier of the black pebble becomes linked to the signified of death, and is now a very full sign.
Fps characters come to us already full. They are replete signs. When we turn them into signifiers for purposes of slashy twisty-turning, we give them new signifieds. The already replete sign becomes the signifier for our new signifieds.
Rps characters come to us, I would argue, empty. Canon (as I've discussed elsewhere in these posts) is patchy and ultimately unknowable in rps. For me, anyway, an rps character is so much emptier as a signifier than an fps character that I might as well call him an empty signifier. An rps character is the black pebble. We then fill up this character with signifieds and turn him into a full and replete sign. So the lee-way we have is so much greater in rps. (Wasn't it lotrips that originated wingfic, for example? An instance of completey insane filling of the empty signifier. Wingfic in SGA and HP is different in kind from wingfic in lotrips, I think, because wingfic in fps needs to fit itself into the existing fps universe. So it loses some of its insanity and becomes, within the contexts of sci-fi-verse and magic-verse, almost plausible.) This is why, to me, rps after my long sojourn in fps, seems very liberating.
The sense of 'just make it all up' is (for me) much stronger in rps than in fps. Fps has already 'made it all up'. The universe and the character are human-made representations (which means, that they are by definition replete signs). Rps is made by nobody. The only people who do the making up are we.
The fact that rps is both real (it is always plausible that one might one day actually indeed meet one of these characters; in lotrips, many fans sought out this very possibility and hurled themselves at premieres and cons -- you can never, ever meet an fps character) and fictional (the characters exist only in the represented canon fragments of the media: pics chosen for us by Getty and Fifa [or, in the case of lotrips, the cameras of fevered fans, *g*, and the 'sneak pics' of dubious teenie mags], interviews, bits of words here and there, film footage -- but who knows what they really think? all of this can lead to the tinhat assumptions of media conspiracy -- we must hide our love in the code of T-shirts [remember the code of T-shirts??? *g*]) just never ceases to intrigue and delight me.
This is the meta-theorist semiotic post. Next followeth the absurd drool obsession post.
:-)
My god, this fandom is transporting me back to the days of lotrips -- I have never dreamed of any fps character; they are too unreal. Or, to formulate this differently: they are (paradoxically) too real. An fps character like, for example, Draco Malfoy or Dr Rodney McKay, is at the same time vague and ill-defined (what exactly does Draco look like? what precisely is McKay's family background, and is his cat white or black?) and fleshed-out and replete (Draco has a whole host of canonical characteristics and attributes that cannot be spirited away; McKay is embodied in the flesh, blood and bare upper arms of David Hewlett).
For this reason, I also find that an fps character is more resistant to my Mary Sueishness. They are too fictional, too real. (Because fiction is real. Words make things real.)
Rps characters, by contrast, are total chimaerae. They are wraiths (and not of the SGA variety). They are insubstantial; they are surface; they are the ultimate screens for our projections. As you know, I love Roland Barthes, and somewhere (I think, it's in his essay on myth at the end of Mythologies Today) he writes about the empty signifier. This is, for example, the black pebble. The black pebble means nothing by itself. It is completely empty. Only in the context of the ancient Athenian practice of pronouncing death sentence, does it come to mean something. The jurors (or whoever they were) put either a white pebble or a black pebble in a bag; these were then counted, and if there were more black pebbles, the sentence for the accused was death. So here, the empty signifier of the black pebble becomes linked to the signified of death, and is now a very full sign.
Fps characters come to us already full. They are replete signs. When we turn them into signifiers for purposes of slashy twisty-turning, we give them new signifieds. The already replete sign becomes the signifier for our new signifieds.
Rps characters come to us, I would argue, empty. Canon (as I've discussed elsewhere in these posts) is patchy and ultimately unknowable in rps. For me, anyway, an rps character is so much emptier as a signifier than an fps character that I might as well call him an empty signifier. An rps character is the black pebble. We then fill up this character with signifieds and turn him into a full and replete sign. So the lee-way we have is so much greater in rps. (Wasn't it lotrips that originated wingfic, for example? An instance of completey insane filling of the empty signifier. Wingfic in SGA and HP is different in kind from wingfic in lotrips, I think, because wingfic in fps needs to fit itself into the existing fps universe. So it loses some of its insanity and becomes, within the contexts of sci-fi-verse and magic-verse, almost plausible.) This is why, to me, rps after my long sojourn in fps, seems very liberating.
The sense of 'just make it all up' is (for me) much stronger in rps than in fps. Fps has already 'made it all up'. The universe and the character are human-made representations (which means, that they are by definition replete signs). Rps is made by nobody. The only people who do the making up are we.
The fact that rps is both real (it is always plausible that one might one day actually indeed meet one of these characters; in lotrips, many fans sought out this very possibility and hurled themselves at premieres and cons -- you can never, ever meet an fps character) and fictional (the characters exist only in the represented canon fragments of the media: pics chosen for us by Getty and Fifa [or, in the case of lotrips, the cameras of fevered fans, *g*, and the 'sneak pics' of dubious teenie mags], interviews, bits of words here and there, film footage -- but who knows what they really think? all of this can lead to the tinhat assumptions of media conspiracy -- we must hide our love in the code of T-shirts [remember the code of T-shirts??? *g*]) just never ceases to intrigue and delight me.
This is the meta-theorist semiotic post. Next followeth the absurd drool obsession post.
:-)
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(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-08 10:16 am (UTC)b.x :)
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-08 10:40 am (UTC)Whee! Hello!
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-08 10:43 am (UTC)i'll have you know i haven't watched *any* of it, save a tiny bit of the last england game online, and that was more like "listening", 'cos it kept stalling. anyway, it was rubbish!!
b.x :)
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-08 10:46 am (UTC)*strokes you* No need to lose that non-football label. (But hah, you watched some England game. Hahah! *points at you*)
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-08 11:10 am (UTC)ANYWAY. i only watched it with half an eye!!
b.x :)
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-08 10:18 am (UTC)Anyways, I hope you don't mind me adding you. I've read all your footie fics and they're brill. And not to mention that your posts are brilliant - with all that Cronaldo pic spamming and the random bursts of Harry Potter fandom and all that.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-08 10:42 am (UTC)What is it with dreams? There you have him with Thierry and they wear chicken suits!! *falls down with hilarity*
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-08 04:01 pm (UTC)The rugby tackles are partly how me and some friends were talking about the last Rugby world cup..
But chicken suits?! wtf. seriously. I woke up laughing my head off..
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-08 12:02 pm (UTC)Ha, take that, Lévi-Strauss! *grins triumphantly* Sorry, I can't stand the guy or the Structuralists at all really. Going on and on about who science has to be objective and that pressing their theories onto the subject instead of developing it from the subject. So yeah...
Totally agree with you about the difference between fps and rps characters. And it's fascinating to read this in scientific terms. :) Empty signifier... Totally. *memo to me - read Barthes!*
But don't you agree that it seems as if fandom seeks to have a tendency to make fps characters into such empty signifiers, too? You know all those stories where the characters are so out of character that it's not even funny. I'd say they show that ultimately also the fps characters are only empty canvaxes for us to project our thoughts and desires on. The thing with rps characters is that you don't have to strip them from all these canon features... Less work, more fun! :)
And about fans seeking to meet rps characters in real life... I'm not so sure if the real existence is actually a pro or a con... *has to think about that some more*
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-10 04:05 pm (UTC)But the idea of them out there and real, that really gives me a spark. And dreams, hoho.
Yes, rps characters are also canvases for projecting on but somehow they are not as empty as rps. As you say, the slate has to be wiped a whole lot longer to get all the canon off it.
Barthes started out a structuralist so not all structuralists are bad, *g*. Also, I love Vladimir Propp and he is the uberstructuralist. :-0
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-10 04:06 pm (UTC)fps characters! Argh, typo.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-10 05:33 pm (UTC)Yes, I guess I would be mortified, too, if I ever got to talk to one of them. I mean, I also read LotR-rps. Back in the days. :)
They're certainly not! Although I wouldn't say that I love Propp. But he was sure as hell way ahead of his time. Though having written a kind of structuralist - *switching to German because that will make this easier*
Also, ich habe ja selber eine quasi-strukturalistische Magisterarbeit über die Erzählstrukturen mongolischer Tiermärchen geschrieben. Und da muss ich sagen, ist mir eben der so gar nicht umgesetzte Anspruch auf Objektivität und Wissenschaftlichkeit echt auf den Sender gegangen. Ich stehe zudem nicht so auf die Methode, sich erstmal eine These auszusuchen und dann das Material passend zu prügeln. Aber den Ansatz finde ich immer noch sehr sinnvoll. Sonst hätte ich mich ja auch methodisch nicht dran orientiert. :)
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-08 02:28 pm (UTC)Why is fanfiction so huge amongst women? I am starting to believe that these stories are to to women what internet-porn-pics are to men.
I see nothing wrong with well written Mary Sue. Especially the more 'kinkier' stuff can give an insight to exploring female sexuality, and be an outlet for fantasies one cannot live out in real life (because you're single, or the boyfriend's not into that, LOL)
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-10 04:08 pm (UTC)Not for me. I look at internet porn pics of women for a quick wank. But that's not what I go to fanfic for. So I don't think it's an equivalent. In fact, I don't think men have an equivalent. I've pondered the whole why-women thing for years now and these days I tend to think, ah, it's all genetic... *g*
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-10 05:40 pm (UTC)I read somewhere that it's allegedly all about us women constructing the ideal partnership with equal partners who *both* are not afraid to show emotions. So constructing the ideal man, too.
Not so sure I agree with this, though. Because if you look at many fan fics they just put one of the two men in the traditional female role with the other one playing the traditional male role in the partnership. Not seeing any developement there, but it's a though, I guess. :)
Maybe it's a mixture of porn *with* plot and developing idealized relationsships?
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-10 11:04 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-08 02:37 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-10 04:12 pm (UTC)*laughs* No, I didn't know you disagreed with me on this but I am not surprised that you disagree with me!
I am not sure your disagreement is actually a disagreement. It seems more a difference in experience. All I can say is that for me diving back into rps after an absence of several years made me feel very different to the way I felt when writing SGA and HP fps. It made me feel as I did in the heady days of lotrips! So I started pondering why it made me feel this way. All I can say is that for me there is a difference in emotional engagement and experience of writing and droolish image-googling. *g*
I just look at Cristiano Ronaldo and think 'empty, empty, empty' and 'drool, drool, drool'.
I look at a pic of Dr Rodney McKay and I think 'Cesperanza, Shalott, Resonant' and 'brawny arms, episode 21, April Bingham, geek, astrophysics, bum'.
*g*
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-10 05:38 pm (UTC)See, I look at Justin, and I think Atlantis concert, Larry King Live, MTC Music Awards and Merry, Helen, Julad, Torch,...
I've been having a long-standing theory, however, that may or may not be true and it separates popslash from lotrips to a degree and a lot of actor RPS insofar as i always felt that popslash was incredibly invested in canon, establishing and selecting a shared canon, and I think that might have been b/c with just a few exceptions (I can think of one off the top of my head) everyone came from mediafandom and reliance on source text and canon. Whereas lotrips was much more mixed in terms of where people came from (points to you :-).
Then again, that theory breaks down with most actorslash, b/c rarely do fans cathect actors without being interested in the films/shows themselves. Otoh, that might be why there's such a sense of otherness to it...it's escape from the bindings of canon maybe???
And then there's the entire issue of celebrity performance and the way popstars *are* their text whereas for most actors there are clearer lines (though at a certain celebrity level their lives become a separate text all of its own)
I really sdon't know whether it's topic or fannish evolution depenbdent, but I find the pop/lotrips differences fascinating!!!
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-08 06:25 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-10 04:15 pm (UTC)You thought rps was 'icky'? You denied your roots?? Ack, woman!! Come back to the fold of evol!
Not that I don't like fps, too. But there's just something about rps, something so untaintedly droolworthy, untainted by canon. It's drool in the raw.
Also, die-hard fps'lers can get terribly het up about canon and rps and whatnot. Rps fandoms are much less fussy. Anything goes!
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-10 04:17 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-10 04:23 pm (UTC)I have, though, written lotr fps. Once.
Oh, yanks, what are we going to do now that the daily dose of pretty is gone from our TV screens? Not to mention the drama and the melodrama and the tears and the laughs and the screams and the EVERYTHING.
meta icons!
Date: 2006-07-08 07:06 pm (UTC)I am totally with you on the RPS canon--in my experience, those "characters" are much emptier and I have to work to flesh them out than the FPS characters (or, if not emptier, much more fluid, capable of holding much more!).
I also feel that even with AU's and alla dat in LOTR fps I have the safety net, the structure, of Tolkien's and Jackson's world and plot.
Writing RPS is like working a high wire (that's electrically charged to the max and the charge circulates in me) without a net.
So my motto with regard to RPS is "canon is my bitch" (in fact, I am at times aggressively anti-canon -- will not put something in a fic because everybody insists it is canon, don't spend much time reading the articles, though I do look at the pics, or following interviews).
And I made two icons with regard to that motto...here's one!
Re: meta icons!
Date: 2006-07-10 04:17 pm (UTC)Writing RPS is like working a high wire (that's electrically charged to the max and the charge circulates in me) without a net.
Oh, totally! This is a wonderful image, I love it! *appropriates image immediately* This is totally what I meant and what I felt when I wrote my first footballer fic 3 weeks ago, this almost fright, this shock at myself, this 'omg, can I get away with this?', and then teetering along the high wire and making it to the other side. Ah, what a feeling! No safety net!
The pics become all. In fps, there's so much more besides the pics.
here's the other!
Date: 2006-07-08 07:06 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-09 01:08 am (UTC)Oh, I SO hope it has.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-10 04:18 pm (UTC)Oh, there was always a niche. It's how I started out, after all. ;-)
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-09 11:39 pm (UTC)here from
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-10 04:19 pm (UTC)Glad to make your week! I need all the help I can get now that the World Cup is over, *wails*.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-09 11:54 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-10 04:19 pm (UTC)It's nice to be yupped. Feel free to do it some more.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-10 09:34 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-10 04:20 pm (UTC)