research question: ameripicking

[lobelia321]

To the Americans on my flist:

If somebody says something and you think it's complete bullshit, what do you say? In English, you would say rubbish. Would you say this in American English? Would you say nonsense? What would John Sheppard say?

I can't use the word bullshit, for various reasons. And I can't use more than one word.

Thank'ee kindly, ma'ams.

Comments

[azewewish.livejournal.com]

You could say really? in a very sarcastic tone, or yeah, right, in the same tone. Some people use bull, without the shit part, and others use (god help me) hogswash.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Thank you! In this same dialogue, John has already said 'yeah, right' and 'really' and then he goes on to say 'bullshit' so I needed something in between. He's getting more and more exasperated but I needed just one other word in there, between 'yeah, right' and 'bullshit'. Hm, hogswash? Others have told me this word, too. Sounds odd to me but hey, that's why I posted this question!!

[ithiliana.livejournal.com]

In academese (American), I'd say "problematic" snicker

In more vernacular settings, hmm, I think nonsense would be what I'd reach for after rejecting bullshit and crap as too vernacular ;>

"Ridiculous" might be in the game too.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Hee. Yes, but it's not an John!professor AU... *g* Vernacular is fine but 'bullshit' is already used up in the next line of dialogue. Crap... hm, that might be a good alternative. Thank you!

[phineasjones.livejournal.com]

damn. i think john sheppard would say bullshit. :) isn't that helpful? we do say nonsense but it feels a little formal and awkward for sheppard. wow... this is hard. he could say 'that's crap' or 'no way' but obviously, those are two words. ummm... baloney is more like what sheppard's grandfather might say.

damn. you got me.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Yes, yes, but he already says bullshit a few lines down in the dialogue and I need another little inbetween word. Crap sounds like a good option but you're thinking he'd say 'that's crap', not just 'crap'? 'No way' is a good one but not strong enough for what I'm aiming for. Thank you!

[phineasjones.livejournal.com]

well, i hesitate to suggest just 'crap' because that sounds more like something just went wrong. i would be concerned that it wouldn't be clear what he was referring to.

i saw someone else suggested 'bull' - i don't know if it's too close to bullshit for you but i think it's a really good suggestion.

[phineasjones.livejournal.com]

also, in reply to other suggestions, i don't believe sheppard would ever say hogwash unless he was joking.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Okay, thank you. *strikes hogwash*

[bexone.livejournal.com]

Eyerolling and rude noises come in handy in these situations, I find...

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Yes, but it's dark and his interlocutor cannot see the eyerollings and anyway, it's not an eyerolling kind of situation because it's not that kind of interlocutor. (Hell, it's a wraith, of course. What else would I be writing?) Thank you!

[andolinn.livejournal.com]

crap

absolutely not rubbish

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Thank you, very helpful. I shall delete 'rubbish'. Pity, it hits just the tone I want but if that's not what he would say, then that's not what he would say.

[vamysteryfan.livejournal.com]

The cleanest response would be "hogwash" Can't do "reeeaallly" without a graphic of teh accompanying eyeroll

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Hogwash, eh? That sounds so bizarre to me but then, that's why I asked this question! Do you really think Col. Sheppard would say 'hogwash'?

[vamysteryfan.livejournal.com]

No I think he'd say something stronger, but it wouldn't fit in your original parameters :)

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

I've changed those parameters somewhat now, in the wake of people's suggestions!

[msilverstar]

'Full of crap' or 'bullshit' are good, (and overeducated intellectuals might say 'complete bullshit'), or 'full of shit'. Also we use 'damn' a lot more than Brits do now, and variations of it, like 'damn engine' (or whatever's being recalcitrant), 'damnit', 'dammit to hell', etc.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Yes, I've cottoned onto the 'damn' thing and have already used it a few times. But it doesn't work here because I need a word that flat out means 'nonsense' and nothing else. And I'm already using 'bullshit' two lines down so I needed another one, not as strong. I may have to rethink my one-word style choice here and indeed go for something like 'that's crap'. Would that work? Or 'that's such crap'?

[msilverstar]

More 'a load of crap' -- I've been thinking about it a bit. Or 'full of crap' (which is more about a person than a statement).

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Thank you! Very useful.

[giglet.livejournal.com]

It's a very regional thing. Where in the US is John supposedly from?

Nobody in the US except an ex-pat Brit or a PBS-watching faux-Brit would say "rubbish."

And "nonsense" is fairly upperclass/intellectual and polite, which doesn't sound appropriate for John.

He might say, "what a load of crap," or just "crap" or "bull" or "what a load of BS" (using the acronym is more polite than saying "bullshit".

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure there is a canon answer to where John is from. And I don't know accents well enough to be able to guess the origin of his actor. Okay, rubbish is definitely out then. (Do Americans ever say 'rubbish', and in what context? I know that on computer desktops the rubbish bin, in American English, is called a 'trash can'.) And yes, I've got John saying 'nonsense' right now but as you say, it doesn't sound right -- which is why I posted this question!

He says 'bullshit' a few lines later; I didn't want to repeat that word. So 'crap' and 'what a load of crap' that sounds good. How about 'horseshit'? (Which I read yesterday in a novel by Michael Crichton, and he's about as American as they come -- isn't he??)

Also, would John say 'jerk off' or 'wank' or what?

[giglet.livejournal.com]

Do Americans ever say 'rubbish'

Short answer: No.

Horseshit is less common than bullshit.

John would say "jerk off".

[thepouncer.livejournal.com]

I'd offer up "ridiculous" as a possibility. There are some colorful phrases, but if you want a one-word thing, I'd probably go with "nonsense".

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Ridiculous? Okay, that might work. I'll try that one. Although I'm intrigued by your more 'colourful' alternatives...? :-)

[sparcck.livejournal.com]

I've not heard too many people using "that's crap." I mean, people who know Brits do, but I don't think it's something you'd find your average American using. If you could say, "that's a load of crap," that would do it. You could also use "that's a load" to mean the same thing.

You said you needed one word, though. Someone suggested "baloney", and if you need one word I'd say that fits the bill. I know it's old-timey, but I use it sometimes, like, "oh, baloney".

Or (going with the more exasperated route) you could say something like "Stop it" or "come on" (my favorite response to "come on", by the way, being "where are we going?").

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

In SGA, they say 'crap' all the time. I figure this is because it's a pre-watershed show and they can't say 'fuck' or 'shit'. Also, it's Canadian...? I'm not English myself but I live here and my feeling is that the English say 'rubbish' rather than 'crap'. I like 'come on' a lot! I will think about that; it has to do with the John/wraith dynamic at this particular point.

[kireseth.livejournal.com]

I don't know your character, but "baloney" is a good American parallel for "rubbish," whether in a sentence: "That's absolute rubbish" / "That's complete baloney" or simply the one word.

"Hogwash" is the same, but it calls to mind an early cowboy movie or a novel set some time ago. I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone say it seriously. Other options don't work as a single word, but only in a sentence. For example, "that's a load of crap" has the meaning you want but too many words and exclaiming "crap" is like saying "damn" when you've just deleted the file you meant to save.

My two cents, anyway. ;)

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

'Baloney' sounds really exotic to me so I'm having to balance my quest for American'ness here with my own sense of what sounds 'right', and I can't 'hear' 'baloney'.

Okay, so 'crap' is more like 'shit' than it is like 'bullshit'.

[kireseth.livejournal.com]

You've probably long settled this by now, but I thought I'd make one more suggestion for the escalating one-word scenario, which is to have him say "bull" and for the next "bullshit" with the emphasis.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Hee, yes, I have rewritten the dialogue but thank you!!

Nice icon.

[cupidsbow.livejournal.com]

I am not American. But. I think he'd be sarcastic, whether it would be picked up on or not. "Right," or "Sure." Or maybe a Pinocchio crack. FWIW.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

A Pinocchio crack? He's already said 'right' and he's now more annoyed than a simple 'sure'. Thank you!! Especially for the sarcasm comment -- this is important to remember for all the other dialogue in the fic! Because he would keep up his sarcasm with a wraith, wouldn't he?

[cupidsbow.livejournal.com]

Pinicchio--something about the Wraith's nose getting bigger, or a play on words around that idea? But in sarcastic John-speak. He'd definitely keep up the sarcasm around a Wraith. And he'd give it a name like Harry or something. :)

[cupidsbow.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I'm not being clear. He might imply the Wraith was lying with a reference to Pinocchio, "keep it up, and one day you'll be a real boy." That kind of thing.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Okay. I like that. That is nifty. Now let me see whether it will fit into the scene.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

And he'd give it a name like Harry or something.
I love you! Because that's one of the first things John did, of course. It was one of the first things I thought up for this fic: the name John would give the wraith. And then that developed into a whole sub-plot... (It's not Harry, though. *g*)