hotness vs slashiness of guys; mckay's genius and sheppard's alleged hotness

[lobelia321]

After a hiatus of some months, I've recently started reading fic again -- mainly SGA fic. And a thing has struck me. I don't know if it has to do with my heightened sensitivity after absence or if it has to do with shifts in fanon since December or if it simply has to do with the fics I happened to read and says nothing about fandom in general, but there is a certain way of characterising McKay that I don't like, and that says things to me about characterisation and slashiness in general.

A few fics I've read recently have a McKay who feels diffident towards Sheppard and who says things like 'look at you!', 'why would a hot guy like you want to be with someone like me?' -- that kind of thing. Two points about this.

First: To me, this is so blatanly counter-canon that it annoys me. Canon!McKay is self-assured and cocky, about his genius and yes, also about his physical attractiveness. He says as much in 'Grace under Pressure', for example, and in 'Letters from Pegasus'. He is not one to be intimidated by a superficial conforming to current codes of handsomeness.

Second: But I am not a canon-maven and I'm willing to tolerate all sorts of off-canon veerings. There is, then, another thing that annoys me here. This is the assumption that Sheppard is, without question, good-looking and sexy, and that McKay is not. This reproduces a stereotypical notion of beauty that I don't like. It also implies that there are standards of beauty that are independent and 'out there', but to me, what is interesting in a pairing, is what makes this person attractive to this particular other person. Why would McKay be attracted by conventional beauty? What else about Sheppard might attract him? Why would McKay disparage his own beauty, and isn't that saying something about the author's disparaging of McKay's style of beauty?

When I read such fics (and I've loved some of them, except for this aspect), I feel that as a reader I am being drawn into colluding with this assessment of McKay, that I am somehow supposed to find him unattractive and pot-bellied and balding and pale. And that 'pot-belliedness' and 'baldingness' and 'paleness' are intrinsically less handsome and less valuable than muscular definition and a full head of hair.

It reminds me why I like the rare pairings. They automatically make writers eschew the conventional prettiness route. If you write wraith, for example, you simply cannot fall for the 'he's so sexy' trap nor can you fall for the 'i'm an ugly wraith, how can you possibly love me?' trap (unless you are writing bad!fic). Ditto with, for example, Kiran Shah or Christopher Lee or John Rhys-Davies in lotrips, or with orcs in lotr; and I think many Snape writers are also of the persuasion that conventional looks don't matter, it's the something else that can spark sexual hotness.

To me, this goes beyond McKay and whomever and into the wider world. I like a lot the idea (and the fact! just look around you!) that unconventionally-looking people have phenomenal sex lives and not just (and perhaps not even?) the conventionally pretty. It's an ethical point.

So I will ultimately always prefer the story where either physical appearance, in the conventional sense, doesn't matter, or where the attraction is spread evenly -- where McKay is gaga about Sheppard without needing to disparage his own body, and where Sheppard is reduced to a helpless, yearning pulp by McKay's physical presence. And where Zelenka and McKay jump each other's buns because they are turned on by each other's minds and come hotly over each other's pale bellies, gasping equations in ecstasy.

ETA: I happen to think that McKay is phenomenally sexy, and Zelenka/McKay was my entry OTP in this fandom. Sheppard was a taste that grew on me over time.

ETA the second: Also, I am not at all adverse to the conventionally pretty. In football rps, my first OTP was blatantly young and pretty. I just don't like it if this goes hand in hand with disparaging the non-pretty.

Comments

[miriam-heddy.livejournal.com]

I know what you're saying, here. But I think I'd rather have people acknowledge McKay's actual human body rather than do the old, "He pulled off his shirt and was surprisingly muscular" magic.

Also, I suspect at least some of the reasons that we aren't getting as much of the makeover magic comes from Hewlett himself, who's very self-deprecating about his looks, and seemingly very much at ease with them. As well, I think Hewlett sort of seems to mock Flanigan a bit.

I also think that women (and most slash writers are women) have trouble reaching that state of acceptance with our own body that Hewlett seems to have with his, and so when Hewlett's actual body is mapped on McKay, our own insecurities get mapped onto McKay as well.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

But I think I'd rather have people acknowledge McKay's actual human body rather than do the old, "He pulled off his shirt and was surprisingly muscular" magic.

Oh yes, I'm sorry if there was a misumderstanding. But the 'he was surprisingly muscular' is just the other side of the coin of 'he was pale and flabby'. It's bowing down to conventional notions of beauty. Either you're not conventional so you must be flabby, or you're not conventional so you must be muscular after all. I love the fics where McKay is acknowledged as hot because of his physical looks.

I see the point about Hewlett bleeding into McKay. Not paying any attention to rps in this particular fandom, I have no notion of Hewlett at all so that may well be a reason behind all this.

I also think that women (and most slash writers are women) have trouble reaching that state of acceptance with our own body that Hewlett seems to have with his,
Oh absolutely! This is what saddens me, I guess, and makes the whole thing into an ethical thing for me. Because I can't help thinking that the 'why would a hot guy like you want to be with someone like me' is not about McKay at all but about the author of the fic. And the one thing about LJ is that Friends' love and appreciation of each other is totally independent of their physical appearance. I, for example, can be Kajol, *g*.

[miriam-heddy.livejournal.com]

Here's an example of Hewlett (reviewing that movie "The 300"):
The 300 (in Imax!) Wow! Jane liked the abs of steel, I loved the whole beautiful computer generated design of this film. Definitely worth seeing at the theatre... and a must in Imax if you can. What could have been a terribly silly testosterone fueled bloodfest was actually a rather beautiful, testosterone fueled blood-fest...I think that everyone should dash out and buy Frank Miller comics to remind themselves how beautiful they are before they start giving "The 300" director too much credit. Still, it was a well directed, gorgeously gory "history" lesson. Note to self: visit a gym once or twice...that or work only with computer generated abs.

And this:
I don't know how many of you heard about Zach from G4 TV who wrote a rap about wanting to be on Stargate Atlantis. Well, I had 5 hours between scenes one day last week (I made the A.D's lives misery, and ate my own body weight worth of snacks at the craft service tent, so don't feel too sorry for me) so I thought I'd spend it embarrassing myself by writing and "performing" my own rap response. We'd had a couple of long days and Zach had just finished his grueling cameo role as Scientist #2 and generally just entertaining us all..So welcome to the world of rap, the slug white nerd... just be thankful that I've still got the day job (as can be see by the shiny new uniform)!

There are more (http://www.adogsbreakfastmovie.com), but you get a sense of the difference between Hewlett and McKay here, and the ways in which men have all sorts of privilege regarding body image and self-acceptance that just makes me annoyed when I hear so many women express anything but that.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

This is extremely interesting, as is your comment on it. I was thinking about the difference in men's body image from women's, and it is true: of course, men often feel diffident about their bodies and they feel driven to compete in gym-like situations and develop abs to show off at the poolside, and if you're a gay man, the whole thing is cubed. But: there are all these compensations, and ultimately, if you have manly successes in the world of careers/ success / patriarchal power / homosocial hierarchies, you can afford to be coquettish about your body, as Hewlett is in those comments you quote above.

Also, actors!!! This was one thing about Lord of the Rings rps: wall to wall actors! I ended up slashing special effects people, just to get someone with a real job. Actors are endlessly vain and endlessly hollow and will always praise their latest movie or show, frequently using the words given them by the directors. ;-)

[miriam-heddy.livejournal.com]

I think the only reason Hewlett's at all interesting is that he's smart enough to be a director and writer (and so the words he uses to describe his show are his own *g*).

But yeah, the male privilege stands out in Hewlett's comments--in the ease of his self deprecation which isn't painful (as is the case with many female comics) but is instead quite warm and self-forgiving (as if he expects us to be forgiving as well).

I think that for gay men, though parts of the culture have adopted an obsession with image, there's still male privilege in that men can and do step out of that and find themselves valued for other things (like power and money) rather than finding that those other aspects of themselves are purely or mostly threatening and considered unattractive.

[junalele.livejournal.com]

Wow, there hasn't been that 'Why would you love me even though I am not conventionally pretty'-thing in SGA? Because it was there in all fandoms I read. In one way or other. Maybe not even with physical 'beauty'. Because take Logan/Wolverine and Scott from the X-Men movieverse, what's not to find pretty and hot? But then it was 'why would you love somebody who is basically blind?' or 'why would you love somebody who is so gruff and doesn't even remember his own past'.

I always thought it had very little to do with the characters as they are portrayed in canon. More like insecurities the writers themselves have which they then projected on the characters. I mean, there is a massive social pressure to be conventionally pretty. Being different from the norm - not so great.

And maybe it also appeals to some people's sense of drama? You know, combined with a bit of miscommunication it inserts a bit of angst.

It really is a weird fanony phenomen. Like the fact that most of the time the bottoms is written to be smaller and more slender even if the character is anything of the like. Methos is pretty much the same height and built as Duncan MacLoud. And Cristiano Ronaldo while being awefully, awefully pretty is really not a frail little flower at all. Teehee!

All these things were a reason why it made me stumble a bit when I read that slash was so popular among women because it made it possible to describe love and romance beyond the traditional gender role. Because - hello gender cliches! Teehee!

[junalele.livejournal.com]

Just read miriam_heddy's comment and that part about women finding it difficult to accept their own bodys and projecting these insecurities - that's what I was trying to say. Yes.

Also, I just wondered - in ...erh...classical Stargate, I wonder what happened to slash fanon Daniel when canon Daniel lost his glasses, took up weapons and become very much buff...

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

More like insecurities the writers themselves have which they then projected on the characters. I mean, there is a massive social pressure to be conventionally pretty.

Absolutely. And this is also a fundamental woman-issue. Although my suspicion is that in the 'real' world of homosexuality (as opposed to the fictional slash world), the issue of physical fitness looms very large.

You know, combined with a bit of miscommunication it inserts a bit of angst.
That is a good point, and I'm sure, sometimes true. However, for me it is a spurious insertion of angst and not the 'real' angst that I love. I mean, wraith are the ultimate angst generators, and the issue of prettiness simply doesn't even enter it. This is angst beyond and below physical appearance.

And re what you say about traditional gender roles: there are fics that are totally traditional, but there are of course others that are not.

It's not that I cannot appreciate the conventional pretty pairing. I mean, look at my football OTP!! It's just that I don't like it if drooling over the pretty hotness disparages the manly not-prettiness.

[junalele.livejournal.com]

From what gay friends told me, it indeed looms very large. As always it depends on the kind of social circle you move in but the hip/in-crowd in the homosexual world are obviously even more focussed on physical fitness and conventional beauty.

Absolutely agree with you. It's a superficial or maybe rather artificial kind of angst. I mean, it's not real angst when all it really makes me want to do is hit the characters until they stop being stupid. Actually it's pretty much like the typical teenager angst, isn't it? Real angst though must be bone-deep and....well, I actually can't really explain it.

And of course, there are other fics as well. Fics were there aren't any roles really. But in many fandoms I was in, the majority were not like this. Obviously it depends on what kind of fans and writers a fandom attracts and on which pairings you tend to read most. I guess, you'll have more 'cliched' fics if you read Draco/Harry than if you read...erh... Snape/Lucius as the conventional pretty seems to produce more 'conventional' stories. Hmm...

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

The Draco thing in HP is a very blatant example of what miriam_heddy calls the 'and then he was surprisingly muscular' phenomenon. Because most of the Draco fics I've read are so blithely and cheerfully non-canon, it's quite breathtaking. Canon!Draco is ugly. Fanon!Draco is God's gift. I don't mind fanon!Draco; in fact, he can be very sexy but HP certainly prettifies Draco across the board.

I have two real-life gay friends who are not conventionally pretty at all but middle-aged and pot-bellied; they both have phenomenally handsome boyfriends, in the conventional sense. They are trophy boyfriends. But these boyfriends are evidently attracted to something beyond the pretty in these men. I could be sceptical and call the something: age, power, patriarchy, money. Or I could be generous and call the something: wit, experience, self-acceptance, sexiness, intelligence, conversation, urbanity.

[junalele.livejournal.com]

Absolutely yes. Good point. I have to admit, I have become very much enarmoured with beautiful fanon!Draco but yes, absolutely not canon. It's the same with Alex Krycek in X-Files. I had a period where I read much fic in the fandom and Krycek was always portrayed as slender but muscular and of course beautiful and then the episodes with him were re-aired on tele and - really not so much. *cackles*

I like the generous reasoning much more. And really, why wouldn't beautiful people be attracted to wit and intelligence and humour like everybody else? *tsks*

[sheafrotherdon.livejournal.com]

I definitely fall into the Rodney-having-a-moment-of-omg-you're-to-hot-for-me camp, but it's never with the idea that he's less attractive. Indeed, the point is always that John finds him *just* as much of a turn on, just as hot, even if Rodney doesn't really expect that.

I've always taken the point of view that Rodney's cockiness is a cover, on many levels, for the things he doesn't understand. He really *is* a genius at physics, engineering, math, everything else you can think of that falls into the world of science he occupies. But he's also absolute pants at inter-personal relationships (although canonically he's improved leaps and bounds, and season three is pretty much nothing but the 'Rodney discovers how to interact with people like a normal person, bless his heart' show) and I've read that into his backstory - which for me is one where he hasn't fitted in, he's been valued for his brain but nothing else (not even his intense loyalty or his courage under fire), and he's been lonely. I think we've had glimpses of *how* lonely at various moments throughout the show, and it's that loneliness that comes up for me in his moments of 'oh my god, are you serious, why are you interested in me?' It's not the hotness factor on a purely physical level - although that's a short hand he can blurt at the moment - but the package factor; why would you be interested in me when so many people haven't been? Are you seriously saying you see the whole me, and not just my brain? And often it's accompanied by the fact that John is so different - laid back, slouchy, a farmer, a pilot, a singer - which just confuses Rodney even more. After all, I'm quite sure it's easiest for him to imagine being adored by a blonde-haired woman who appreciates his braiin rather than a guy who seems to think there's more to him than that.

[sheldrake.livejournal.com]

God, I wish there was more McKay/Zelenka. I haven't read any SGA (or indeed, much fic at all) for ages, but I could quite go for a bit of that right now... I think I've probably read it all though.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

I haven't come across any. If anything, with time there is less of McKay/Zelenka as the fandom seems to have settled in deeply with McShep.

[lazulus]

You've read Julad's McKay/Zelenka stuff, yes? Even if so, I suggest going and re-reading as it's just so fab!

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Honey, Julad is my SGA goddess and I have re-read those Zelenka fics so often, the print-outs are coming apart in my hand... 'Absurdity Theory' was my entrance fic into this fandom!!