Subjective vs objective
Nov. 15th, 2002 12:35 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
lobelia321Before I had even had coffee, ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
demelzagirl zapped me with some demcartean txt-fb on my Header. This prompted musings on
on objective vs subjective pov in fic.
I wrote that my fic consisted mostly of "blunt, objective reporting". Demelza pointed out that there is no such thing as objective narrative but that everything is laced through with subjective (incl. sub-conscious) word choice and so forth.
My musings: True, on the one hand. Objective is subjective. My objectivity is not some other author's objectivity. And the choice of 'objective narrative' is in itself a subjective choice on my part. I cannot hop outside of my own head.
On the other hand, there are literary 'objectivity effects' (am adapting the phrase coined by Roland Barthes here; he coined 'reality effect'). And for me this also links in with musings I've been having re omniscient authorial pov.
E.g., if I want Dom and Karl to kiss, and Dom to do it for the sex and Karl to do it for the love, I can write:
Subjective effect, subjective pov (Karl):
He melted into Dom's mouth, into Dom's essence. He breathed into Dom, and inhaled Dom's sweet breath. Sweet, despite Dom's faraway eyes. Sweet, although Karl knew that Dom's heart was not in the kiss.
Subjective effect, omniscient author, multiple pov:
Karl's tongue was all well and good in Dom's mouth but what Dom really wanted was Karl's dick up his arse.
Karl felt Dom's erection press against his groin but he was lost in the kiss; he could have gone on kissing Dom for hours.
Objective effect, nobody's pov:
Dom kissed Karl. His hand curled around Karl's dick. Karl's fingers crawled over Dom's cheeks.
So, yes, all of these are my subjective narrative but the effect of the objective narration is that of at least increased reporting, less of a sense of being in the persons' heads, more guesswork required from the reader. Hm, maybe the objective narration requires more in the way of the readers' subjective input...
Finally, the pomo take: if you believe Lacan, you could say that, otoh, nothing at all is subjective. Subjectivity is shaped by language. We do not speak language; language speaks us because it pre-existed us and when we were babies, we had to accede to language. So even when we are writing something that is very subjective, we are using words that are not our own. We have to follow the codes of language.
I need to ponder all of this some more but I have been struggling over these semiotic / fic-crit issues for months. (Which is mainly why Arthropods sequel is still not finished.)
demelzagirl zapped me with some demcartean txt-fb on my Header. This prompted musings onon objective vs subjective pov in fic.
I wrote that my fic consisted mostly of "blunt, objective reporting". Demelza pointed out that there is no such thing as objective narrative but that everything is laced through with subjective (incl. sub-conscious) word choice and so forth.
My musings: True, on the one hand. Objective is subjective. My objectivity is not some other author's objectivity. And the choice of 'objective narrative' is in itself a subjective choice on my part. I cannot hop outside of my own head.
On the other hand, there are literary 'objectivity effects' (am adapting the phrase coined by Roland Barthes here; he coined 'reality effect'). And for me this also links in with musings I've been having re omniscient authorial pov.
E.g., if I want Dom and Karl to kiss, and Dom to do it for the sex and Karl to do it for the love, I can write:
Subjective effect, subjective pov (Karl):
He melted into Dom's mouth, into Dom's essence. He breathed into Dom, and inhaled Dom's sweet breath. Sweet, despite Dom's faraway eyes. Sweet, although Karl knew that Dom's heart was not in the kiss.
Subjective effect, omniscient author, multiple pov:
Karl's tongue was all well and good in Dom's mouth but what Dom really wanted was Karl's dick up his arse.
Karl felt Dom's erection press against his groin but he was lost in the kiss; he could have gone on kissing Dom for hours.
Objective effect, nobody's pov:
Dom kissed Karl. His hand curled around Karl's dick. Karl's fingers crawled over Dom's cheeks.
So, yes, all of these are my subjective narrative but the effect of the objective narration is that of at least increased reporting, less of a sense of being in the persons' heads, more guesswork required from the reader. Hm, maybe the objective narration requires more in the way of the readers' subjective input...
Finally, the pomo take: if you believe Lacan, you could say that, otoh, nothing at all is subjective. Subjectivity is shaped by language. We do not speak language; language speaks us because it pre-existed us and when we were babies, we had to accede to language. So even when we are writing something that is very subjective, we are using words that are not our own. We have to follow the codes of language.
I need to ponder all of this some more but I have been struggling over these semiotic / fic-crit issues for months. (Which is mainly why Arthropods sequel is still not finished.)
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(no subject)
Date: 2002-11-15 09:01 am (UTC)