gearing up to writing workshop

[lobelia321]

Three more days until my week-long Arvon writing workshop (with real-life published prize-winning authors, help)!

So I've been having thoughts

(that in orig I'm having to make up my own canon first, and then having to twist it into fanon -- a fanon of one, in this case -- and how even to do that? and where to find the slashy fandom passion?)

and gearing up by actually physically writing something!

I shlepped three ringbinders to Caffè Nero yesterday afternoon, in my trusted and fabulous granny trolley -- one of them my collated excerpts on 'Writing' (from the millions of self-help writing books I like to read with the sole purpose of procrastination), and my nanowrimo drafts, and other Clever Things About Orig.

So I open my laptop and what do I do? Type up handwritten notes for Harry Potter opus, of course.

*facepalms*

But oh my, it was so exciting! I wrote these notes in 2006. I have five A5 notebooks full of these notes! Some of these notes are fantastic! I love them! I can't remember writing them; it's like reading someone else's fic and thinking, wow, this person is totally on my wavelength and loves my OTP and everyfink!!

Um. Will the people at Arvon share these obsessions? I fear not.

So then I took another sip of the (meanwhile stone cold) cappuccino and opened another document and started writing a chunk of nanowrimo Nov. 2008 orig, sort of, kinda, pretending that the orig character I was typing about was not really Draco Malfoy.

Is this perhaps step 1? When transferring the fandom love to the orig uphill-march? Take droolworthy fanon object, slap a new name on him, restyle his hair somewhat and give him a new skin colour while keeping all the adorable drooldetails (bony wrists, pointy nose) and the angst (always the angst!), and make him do more or less what fanon character in fanfic has been doing in an AU sort of a way -- and hey, is not AU the fanfic equivalent of orig?

Maybe I should just look at this orig malarkey as one big giant AU???!

*tears at eyebrow hairs*

Anyone out there? Any thoughts??

Comments

[eyebrowofdoom.livejournal.com]

I am totally treating origfic as RPF these days. Most of what I now write for my creative writing course is:
- RPF of the horrifying private truths of my parent's unhappy marriage and divorce
- RPF in which my Mary Sue gets to hook up with various men and women I have been bestially and irrationally in unrequited love with over the years.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

You are rpf'ing your own rl! I am impressed by the mental gymnastics involved. And by the shameless validation of the Mary Sue.

When wilt thou post again something, o Eyebrow?

[viva-gloria.livejournal.com]

rpf'ing your own rl

Doesn't everyone? or is it just me?

A heck of a lot of my original fiction comes from personal experiences, dressed up to look shiny.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

It's very important to look shiny, my preciousss.

*g*

[eyebrowofdoom.livejournal.com]

I wrote a whole 2 fanfics this year! The cup runneth (relatively) over!

[azdak.livejournal.com]

and hey, is not AU the fanfic equivalent of orig?


I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I can see hyow, in theory, that would be possible. In practice, I think that all fanfic - including AU - lives far too intensively from shared knowledge of the source for it to be really equivalent to original fic. I say "in practice" because I have yet, myself, to come across an AU in a fandom I didn't know that was so brilliantly done I couldn't spot the tell-tale fannish obsessions (with, yes, "adorable drooldetails" amongst other things), but of course I may simply have failed to discover those really outstanding AUs that aren't, first and foremost, FANfic but fanFIC.

Hm, re-reading your post the question that comes to mind is why, if it's fanfic that inspires you, are you not simply writing fanfic, instead of forcing yourself to write origial fic that, by the sounds of it, doesn't greatly inspire you? If fanfic is what you really enjoy writing, then write fanfic!

Of course, I can quite see why you wouldn't necessarily want to unpack a Harry Potter fanfic epic in front of a room full of prize-winning professional authors! So for the immedaite deadline, I think - if it were me, and obviously everybody's way of writing is different - I would worry less about the characters and more about the story - what sort of a story do you want to tell? A love story? A Mystery? An adventure story? Something where nothing much happens and the focus is on the inner life of the characters, or something full of rousing external action? Because what kind of characters you need will depend on what kind of story you want to tell, and maybe Draco Malfoy, in any guise, will turn out to be unsuitable (or, of course, he may turn out to be just what you need).

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Yes, I was flippantly skipping about seven steps in my post but, of course, I concur: fanfic, incl. AU, is not origfic (I say this with reservations to which I will return anon).

And the hallmark of fanfic is, in a way, as you mention, the link to the fandom. We want to spot the insider details; we expect the insider details; and if we fail to find them (i.e. if the fic, incl. the AU fic, comes too close to orig and veers too far away from the canon and the fanon), then we don't like it. Then the fic fails as fanfic. I don't think it's a matter of being outstanding, actually. An outstanding AU fanfic is precisely one that keeps its link to fanon/fandom firmly anchored. Anyway, that is wot it think.

if it's fanfic that inspires you, are you not simply writing fanfic, instead of forcing yourself to write origial fic
I have thought about this for two days, ever since I first read your question. It is an excellent question, and thank you so much for posing it!

I think these are my reasons:
• I want to write for more people. I have been fortunate to have been part of some huge fandoms (HP, lotrips) but even there, the most feedback I have ever got was 59 (yes, I keep an obsessive list of stats...). Even granted, that lots of readers read without feedbacking, that is still not nearly as many readers as you get when you avail yourself of the distribution and marketing systems of the publishing world.

Also, I want to write for readers who are not in fandom, e.g. my family and non-fandom friends.

• I have had a dream of being a novelist ever since I was very little. I voiced this dream out loud to somebody for the first time just days before I discovered fandom and embarked upon my new and exciting writing adventures. So the dream predates the fanficcing, and it is with me still.

• I just love books. I love novels. I am a voracious novel reader, and I want to be part of it! The fantastic thing about fandom is (one of the fantastic things) that writing is so close to reading. All writers are readers and feedbackers as well; there's a phenomenal synergy. I want to be a part of a bit of that in the novel world as well.

• I am convinced that origfic can inspire me as much as fanfic. It did so before I discovered fandom, and when I am between fandoms or in an outdated fandom or in a tiny, rare-pairings fandom where nobody shares the passion, my inspiration from fanfic can also drop a lot. At the moment, e.g., I have no fandom, and all my droolings are nostalgic. So I may as well make up my own fandom of orig.

Which is where I get back to what you say about fanfic not being orig. From the point of view of analysis, I would argue that indeed, it is not (although it shares much, where do we draw the line blah blah? Is Margaret Atwood's novel Penelopiad fic or orig? and so forth)

But from the point of view of production, that is, of writing, of me writing, the two are aligned. Because they are so close in my head and my heart and my hard drive (ah, alliteration!). And because I have become so familiar with producing fanfic, I am trying to map that onto my not-yet-as-familiar practice of producing origfic. So I find myself always looking for connections. :-)

I would worry less about the characters and more about the story - what sort of a story do you want to tell?
Yes, also agreed but for me the story and the characters go together. I did once write an AU where I had the story before I had the characters, and then I picked and mixed my characters from canon, as if they were actors being cast for roles. But mostly I start with the person. I need to know the persons, and then see what kind of story happens to them. And then I figure out, does a comedy happen to them? Or an adventure? Or a sci fi fantasy?

But I see what you mean. The character is married to the story, and vice versa. Anyway, I will t hink about this more. This is what my week in Yorkshire will be for!

Thanks for all these great questions and points!!!

[azdak.livejournal.com]

An outstanding AU fanfic is precisely one that keeps its link to fanon/fandom firmly anchored. Anyway, that is wot it think.

You're right - I've decided that's wot I think, anyway! I have to admit that I haven't read many AUs, so my discussion of them was rather hypothetical. It's partly because none of the (very few) fandoms I've been active in has had a tradition of AUs, and partly because they simply don't interest me as a genre. I'm very dedicated to canon :-)

I want to write for more people

I can totally understand that (although I think 59 comments is AMAZING! Back when I wrote fic with any degree of regularity, I used to think that 5 comments was standard, 7 was excellent, and 9 meant people really, really liked the story :-))

Also, I want to write for readers who are not in fandom, e.g. my family and non-fandom friends.

Another excellent motive :-) I can definitely relate to that.

because I have become so familiar with producing fanfic, I am trying to map that onto my not-yet-as-familiar practice of producing origfic. So I find myself always looking for connections. :-)

Yes, I see what you mean. It's finding ways of applying the tools you've already acquired in fanfic to this new genre.

Thank you for writing such an interesting, and thought-provoking, answer to my question. It's a thorny problem, the relationship of writing fanfic to writing original fic - clearly both are creative literary acts, and yet there are very important differences - and similarities - between them. For myself, I think that they ultimately satisfy different needs, and hence require different forms (like you, I think of writing original fic as in part a process of canon-creation, although I don't then take the step of imagining myself ficcing that canon - although I'm not sure why. Is the ficcing part for you the moments that provide an emotional pay-off, while the "canon" is the set-up? I tend to think of all that as "canon").

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean by being dedicated to canon! I veer between a merry disdain of canon-slavishness and a slavish stickler for canonish detail. In my head, no contradiction exists between these two extreme positions somehow...! :-) And perhaps I myself find it more fun to write an AU than to read an AU -- although that can't be right, either, because I've read some lovely AUs, and it is true, they gain their bite and loveliness from the traces and echoes of canon/fanon that the reader knows shadow them. It's sort of delicious to read space jock John Sheppard as a publishing clerk. Indeed, in following this discussion, I've realised that probably an AU needs canon even more than a more canon-based fic.

I do feel humbled by those 59 comments. In fact, I'm humbled by fandom overall; it is just such an amazing, generous place. Quantity comes, I am sure, from quality (I can't give that one up *g*) combined with being at the right place (centre of fandom comm) at the right time (height of fandom fever pitch) with the right pairing (the OTP of most) and the right mix of accessible romance, angst, hotness, and humour. When you veer into weird pairings or experimental writing, it's much more niche. On the other hand, for the rare and the weird I've sometimes got the longer and more thoughtful comments so that actually makes up for quantity of feedback.

After my first nanowrimo effort, I showed snippets to non-fandom friends and was surprised to discover how much pleasure I got from their feedback. I have been very in the closet about my fannish writing and I am still debating whether to out myself up in Yorkshire (I think I may) so being able to tell people 'look, I write and here's what I wrote!' was just a delight.

Is the ficcing part for you the moments that provide an emotional pay-off, while the "canon" is the set-up?
You may be onto something here. The canon is like the world creation and then I twist it, to do something to it. I wrote an SGA fic last year where I imagined an island on another planet and did research into volcanoes and islands: that, I guess, is a kind of canon-creation, and then I inserted my characters into it. But actually I also had to invent one of the characters, and I wrote lots and lots of drafts before I could get away from describing and writing backstory and just plunge right in: perhaps that is also what you mean. Perhaps the whole darn thing is not so different after all from origfic and I can just go ahead and get over myself!

As I was saying to viva_gloria below, being a reader (and writer) of fanfic is often harder work than being one of orig work. To appreciate orig, you just start reading. But really to understand and appreciate the nuances and delights of fanfic, you need to know canon as well, and you need to know fanon, and this is hard work! It's just that we love the work so much (watching endless hours of trashy TV, reading trashy novels, scouring the interwebs for pics and meta and fics) that we don't experience it as work but as love and passion and obsession.

a thought and a comment

[brindel.livejournal.com]

Huh.

What exactly do you love about your notes? Character-bits, action-sequence bits, a tasty bit of dialogue between two (or more...)

Knowing *what* you liked, especially coming from a viewpoint 3 years removed, will probably go a long way to helping you figure out what might move you in an orig-fic (and if it tastes better in your brain to call it an AU, go for it!) I do think you hit the nail on the head with some AUs being a fanfic'd orig.
They're fewer and farther between than you might think, since fanon/canon backgrounds form so much of the interactions/reactions of the characters, but I can think of one or two where the characters were taken down so close to the 'basics' of their personality and the setting was so different from the original fandom, they might as well have been completely orig. Do that for your 'fav fanon object' and you've got a winner!

Re: a thought and a comment

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Great questions! Thank you, Brin!

What do I love about my notes? I love: some turns of phrase; a certain snappiness; having captured the angst I wanted to capture; the sensuousness; the sexiness; having fitted a piece of plot puzzle into its slot.

I do think you hit the nail on the head with some AUs being a fanfic'd orig.
I'm with azdak on the whole, that from an analysis point-of-view, this parallel isn't quite right but from my point of view, from the view of the writer and maker, the two, orig and AU, are very close. AU is the closest I've come to writing orig within fandom, and that is, in a way, my starting-off point.

I have written the type of AU you describe yourself, and above all, I have written pairings so rare and characters so obscure that canon furnished little beyond their name (if that!). (See my icon: an anonymous extra from Lord of the Rings, one of the warriors of Gondor -- she plays an important role in my Desert Prince AU!) But canon is not only about the characters, of course, but also about the world, and with orig, I'm having to make up everything! It is dizzy-making.

Oh, here is what I also love: worlds that I managed to make up.

Thank you!

Re: a thought and a comment

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, here is what I also love: worlds that I managed to make up.

Worlds you made up! D*mn, Girl! If you're making your own worlds, what are you worrying about origi-fic for?!? Making your own worlds is practically a definition of origi-fic!

You're going to have a blast at Arvon, I'm sure of it!

Re: a thought and a comment

[brindel.livejournal.com]

Oops. Forgot to log-in like a doofus. My bad. *g*

Re: a thought and a comment

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Worlds you made up! D*mn, Girl! If you're making your own worlds, what are you worrying about origi-fic for?!? Making your own worlds is practically a definition of origi-fic!

You're going to have a blast at Arvon, I'm sure of it

Thanks, Ms Anonyma! *g*

But really, thank you so much; you are surely right and maybe I should just go and stop worrying about these matters and get on with it. :-) Thank you for your confidence!! It is really, really appreciated and means a lot. I'll remember what you said in my week to come.

[junalele.livejournal.com]

Actually, I'm all kinds of impressed. Five (!) notebooks and sitting down and working on something and for more than a few minutes.

When still in Berlin I managed to revise notes for one of the screenscript ideas (actually born out of a very mary-suish fanficion idea which then grew apart from the canon). So now in Heidelberg, with no tv and no internet at home, I opened my laptop (at home and with a tea getting cold not a coffee as I haven't managed to buy espresso yet), stared at the notes - and closed the document. Wah.

Re: au fanfic being orig. In most cases, the characters are still tied so closely to fandom that I wouldn't consider them even close to original. Nope. But I have read a few fanfics which were so far removed from fandom and had such a vivid, thick original setting that the only thing making them au and not original were the names of the characters. Like one story in Nsync slash which is set in the publishing world and just breathtaking.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

For more than a few minutes... yes! *laughs*

I know. I stun myself.

No TV and no internet is excellent. I watch no TV but the internet, as you can imagine, is a terrible detractor and procrastination machine. At this creative writing workshop, there will be no internet!! Fantastic!

But way to go! You opened your laptop!! :-)

I am basically agreeing with you and azdak that from an analysis point-of-view, AU is not orig but from my viewpoint, the two feel very aligned and live side by side in my head. This is why I am always looking for connections in my head to kick start the creativity process.

And I have written a number of stories that were so AU they were virtually (virtually!) orig: either very AUish or using such rare pairings or obscure characters, that there was no canon information on them beyond maybe a name (if that).

[junalele.livejournal.com]

I would say computers and internet is work of the devil... Only not. :)

AU is defintely a grey area. Between canon and fanon and orig. And well, I mean, nobody would consider Goethe's Faust not 'orig'. And still, he build upon a pre-existing story and character. So what makes fanfic different anyway to any 'orig' adaptation of a pre-existing Stoff? I wonder... It can't be the writing standard because there is fanfic so beautifully written that it surely is better than at least 80% of published novels/short stories... So, is this just a matter of perception where the sources for fanfic are not considered as 'worthy' as other sources? Huh...

[viva-gloria.livejournal.com]

I keep thinking about the differences between fanfic and original fic from the writing POV, and have had a fair few Vehement Discussions with filthy (origfic) pros. ("What is the point in my writing original fiction?" I ask, and they splutter and shout.)

Fanfic:
- less work for the reader, they (think they) know what / who they're reading about
- the AU! AU can only work as a transformative work! and implies a level of playfulness that I enjoy.

Original Fic:
- I think it perfectly possible to write original fic based on fanfic characters. (In fact I am hoping to write a not-SGA origfic erotica thing.)
- I like writing historical fiction, whether fanfic or original. And original is so often RPF. Hilary Mantel, come on down ...

Perhaps it comes down to: what is the creativity? Is it in the setting / characters? Or is it in the plot? (Or, in many cases, is it in the spelling / font / layout / punctuation? But I am mean and cruel.)

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure origpros know about how this works, unless they have been fanfic writers themselves at some point. The thing about me is I've been so diffident and embarrassed and sekritive that I've not mentioned my fanficcing actitvities to any writers I know; I wish I had now so that I could gauge what people think. I'm still debating whether to out myself up in Yorkshire or not. My inclination is 'yes' because I'm tired of hiding and want to move forward; and it is the bulk of my writing experience and writing success over the past years: it's been my training ground and where I first finished stuff and learned to revise and do things with words. And it is a special kind of mode or genre that has its own distinctive characteristics and demands that need to be respected and can't just be thrown into a 'better than' or 'worse than' comparison with orig but that I want to integrate somehow.

If that makes sense. But I'm sure if it's going to make sense to anyone, it would be to you. :-)

I like your question about 'what is the point of writing orig'? It echoes what azdak said above, and also nicely debunks the prejudice that 'why, of course, fanfic is inferior'.

This very morning I heard an ad for the sixth series of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy on Radio Four, written by Eoin Colfer who was interviewed, saying: "I'm using Douglas Adam's characters and world to write a new story." What else is this but a prime definition of fanfic????!!

Some of your points:
Fanfic:
- less work for the reader, they (think they) know what / who they're reading about
I'm thinking about this. I'm not sure that reading a published orig novel is 'hard work' for me, and that reading fanfic is 'less work'. After all, to get into fanfic truly and get the most out of it, you have to know the canon and the fanon, and that takes a lot of work! It's not perceived as 'work' by us fans, of course, because we spend those hours researching and surfing the web and reading trashy novels and watching hours and hours of trashy TV series without experiencing it as work: we experience it as love and passion and obsession! For most orignovels you need no extra knowledge outside the story at all: you just pick it up and start reading.

the AU! AU can only work as a transformative work! and implies a level of playfulness that I enjoy.
Yes! As I said above, my perception of AU parallels with orig come from my own experience of writing but if I were to do a proper analysis of the two literary types, I would agree: the AU needs to be tethered to canon (perhaps even more than a non-AU needs to be tethered!).

I think it perfectly possible to write original fic based on fanfic characters. (In fact I am hoping to write a not-SGA origfic erotica thing.)
Yay! Go, go, go you! I think some published writers I have read have done this. I myself have repackaged my 'When We Are Human' as an orig for Mslexia but I have to say, it goes against the grain for me a bit. For me, each character (and each characterisation of the same character) is unique and itself, and it hurts me to wrench the character out of their context and their 'trueness' and plonk them elsewhere. How are you going about it?

I like writing historical fiction, whether fanfic or original. And original is so often RPF. Hilary Mantel, come on down ...
Well, like totally, duh...!! *g* You've said this for years, of course, but indeed: historical fiction is rpf! Alexander the Great, Justin Timberlake, Viggo Mortensen: where is the difference, eh?

Also why do you say you're being 'cruel' re spelling and font? Am I not getting something? Or is this a little sideswipe at the liek omg 111 nonspellers? ;-p

[viva-gloria.livejournal.com]

first, apologies for late reply! Because LJ hates me and has stopped forwarding comments to email ...

I'm not sure origpros know about how this works, unless they have been fanfic writers themselves at some point.

I think that's a very good point. I know two filthy pros who started off with fanfic (that is, I suspect I know rather more than two, but those two are happy to talk about it and in one case point me to where their fic might be found.) The person who spluttered and shouted is not now nor has ever been a fanfic writer -- but he has been a Professional Writer for 20 years.

Word, as the young folk say, re writing experience, special mode, training ground.

There is (usually) more joie de vivre in my fanfic: maybe because I think of it and approach it as play -- in the sense of 'playing with canon' if nothing else.

using Douglas Adam's characters and world to write a new story." What else is this but a prime definition of fanfic????!!
See also my recent post (aargh, hasn't transferred from Dreamwidth:
here) about Ursula Le Guin's afterword in Lavinia: "...a translator's yearning to identify with the text"

I'm not sure that reading a published orig novel is 'hard work' for me, and that reading fanfic is 'less work'.
Hmm, you're right. (Or I'm imprecise.) I think it's more that reading fanfic means you already know the characters and possibly the setting: you don't have to spend time working out what, for instance, John Sheppard is like, in the way that you'd need to get to know an original character. (Because you have already formed an impression of him from hours of trashy badly-acted TV.)

One of the ways I can tell when the black dog's sniffing around is that I don't want to read new novels -- partly for fear that they might disappoint. I don't even necessarily read new fic: this week I've been reading through all the SGA stuff on my PDA (which may lead to a post about the fics I keep for comfort. But I digress.)

the AU needs to be tethered to canon (perhaps even more than a non-AU needs to be tethered!).
Otherwise it's just -- 'just' -- origfic...

I myself have repackaged my 'When We Are Human' as an orig for Mslexia

Oooh! Must see and compare and contrast!

For me, each character (and each characterisation of the same character) is unique and itself, and it hurts me to wrench the character out of their context and their 'trueness'

Good point. I think I'd find it much more difficult to rewrite an existing fic than to use an unwritten outline. I did think it up with John and Rodney in mind, but they can as easily be 'genius sciency type with sekrit crush' and 'laid-back adventurous type who can't talk about feelings'.

historical fiction is rpf! Alexander the Great, Justin Timberlake, Viggo Mortensen: where is the difference, eh?
Alexander the Great could sing?

Also why do you say you're being 'cruel' re spelling and font? Am I not getting something? Or is this a little sideswipe at the liek omg 111 nonspellers? ;-p

Absolutely: and the people who can't format an LJ post so I have to scroll side to side ... and the people who use teensy-tiny font so I can't see their typos ... Readability has saved my sanity.